[AAR] WHC eviction from the FC team point of view

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[AAR] WHC eviction from the FC team point of view

Post by Gideon Mastracci jr »

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...

Now that you have been warned, a quick introduction.

What follows is the FC team experience of the WHC eviction and a description of the events in the lead up lead up to, during, and lessons learned after the eviction. It does not replace, but rather complements Archemide's description of the defence fleet itself, which you can find here: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 6&t=128251. Our focus in writing this AAR was much more from the organisational side of the FC team, why some decisions were made or why some opportunities were missed.

This is also not meant to replace the director AAR that is being written by Anidien in the absence of Devalt and should come out very soon.

We chose to tell what we knew, as fully as what was reasonable, and without much prevarication. There are some things that could be expanded upon, but at 4900 words total - some things had to be left out. Either since they were not our story to tell, or they were only tangentially connected to the events.

To break up what is otherwise a very unwieldy wall of text, it will be separated into 4 parts.

- The context of the eviction and a little about the opposition
- What happened before the eviction in terms of the state of WHC and the FC team
- What happened during the eviction itself
- Lessons learned, some proposed solutions - for the FC team, WHC and also uni-wide.

This text will be 4900-ish words. A more competent writer would have done it in half that. But eh, a mediocre quality AAR is better than no AAR at all.
Now, if you are still interested - get comfortable and let's plough on.


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Context of the eviction

Post by Gideon Mastracci jr »

1. The context of the eviction and a little about our oposition.

I will not go into very much detail with all the connections, that presumably is for the director AAR. However, what the FC team knew about the opposing force (Opfor) is broadly outlined below.

There is a group in wormhole space called the Ugandan Death Squad (UDS) that consists of members of many corporations from both wormhole space and known space that include Lazerhawks, Rote Capelle, Deepwater Hooligans, Snuffed Out, and many smaller corps. Whether they all identify with that name or not doesn’t matter. But the salient fact is that this group does not represent any particular in game corporation, though I’m given to understand that they occasionally did call in their parent corps for help if the eviction got too ‘spicy’.

One of their membership that was ‘neutral’ in terms of whatever personal enmities spurred this eviction wrote a reddit thread with some thoughts of evictions and Eve University, you can read it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1 ... rspective/

UDS membership also included several members with ties to Eve University leadership, past and current, as well as previous Eve University members.

Cucumber Roll/Lightsong The Bold – past Eve Uni member, left on less than amicable terms in the past according to some members who knew him. He did pull his uni alt out of corp right before the eviction started, with a rather humorous stated expectation to return after.

Nexdoom Atruin – current Eve Uni Quartermaster. Currently not part of the eviction group, went inactive and was kicked from UDS for inactivity around a year ago.

Squin Ti – once-upon-a-time Eve Uni member.

Rogue Ozran/Rogue Nighn – a previous Eve Uni member who wished that their ideas were listened to more. Often liked as a teacher but otherwise a polarized figure and not really liked in WHC. Repeatedly left the uni surrounded by largely self-made drama.

Orin Borider/Niro Redirob – once upon a time Eve Uni member, also a member of Hard Knocks (HK), one of the two strongest wormhole groups at the time, latterly a member of Lazerhawks – now the strongest wormhole group after HK have died as a group. He was trying to change the WHC pretty much wholesale at the time but failed and left the Uni again. He had a long list of observations about how and why WHC was wide open for eviction by a group such as his, which for one reason or another had not been addressed. I think we can safely say that with this eviction he has proven his point.

Jack RipperJr – current Eve Uni logistics director. Naturally was not part of the eviction operations on Eve Uni toons during his time in UDS. By his own description of things – he has not been active with that group for many months, and not in their communication channels currently. Still has an alpha toon in one of the corporations that participated in the eviction left over from the times before. According to him, he had no knowledge of the eviction.

And lastly: Sparklez Ripper – FC team officer and WHC community coordinator, then FC team manager until she left the corporation mid-2023. She was a member of Lazerhawks while still being in Eve University and continues to be a member now. She obviously had very good working knowledge of how the WHC works and how Eve Uni FC team operates having worked with and led it herself. She knew what defence assets there were having put a significant part of them there herself and knew exactly what capital assets WHC had. I think she was trying to implement some of the ideas Orin proposed but ultimately didn’t succeed. Was probably given far too many responsibilities all at once.

As is now very well known, there was an element of corp theft during the eviction. Before reading the rest of the document, I recommend listening to at least the initial part of the Declarations of War podcast where Arps 331 is a permanent host and provides some more detail and a description of the events that had happened, with a quick explanation of how the theft was discovered and how the likely culprit was discovered. You can find it here: https://declarationsofwar.com/269-grinches/

The upcoming director AAR written by Anidien will likely go into much more detail, but in short, the theft was discovered within a few hours after the eviction started, a human error was suspected at first as officers and/or SFCs do sometimes take ships out to their personal hangar for refitting. After a short search by all relevant people who could possibly have access to the hangar and some searching through relevant corporation logs, the more likely explanation of corp theft had been confirmed.

There is also a lengthy document White Orchids wrote to the leadership that he was happy to share here, which will be referenced throughout this AAR with links to specific sections. If you wish to read it in its entirety before continuing to read this post, here is a link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_c0 ... l8d6c/edit
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Before the eviction: The WHC and the FC team

Post by Gideon Mastracci jr »

2. Before the eviction: The WHC and the FC team


- On the question of WHC.

It has been the experience of the various FC team members that WHC had become drained of experienced members. This meant that there was a lower than usual capability to engage in more complex kinds of PVP. It also created a culture where it had been difficult for successive FCs, both within WHC and coming from without to form fleets, especially in doctrine. There was also a lower than usual level on the fundamental survival knowledge of wormhole life, like hole control and fighting it, as well as a larger than normal emphasis put on PvE as a goal in itself, rather than means to fund PVP activities.

It has been raised by current and former members of Eve Uni that this can make a corporation an attractive target for eviction and that PVP mindedness is an important survival trait in wormhole space as well as part of the overall culture – entities that do not exhibit it tend to get evicted faster. There is probably some truth to that, however it should be balanced with the fact that Eve University is not a normal wormhole corporation and is probably not held to quite the same standard.

However, regardless of whether you consider the ‘Wormhole Bushido’ to be a thing or not, the overall observation of the senior FC team members was that WHC was certainly not in a position to defend itself when threatened because of the factors mentioned earlier. That issue had become even more apparent several months ago when a corp called Hole Control cloaky camped WHC for a few days, after which at least one staff member left for other corporations because, according to them, they realised how wide open WHC was in that sense.

It was not uniform across time zones, but overall, the PVP ability level of WHC had significantly decreased compared to the last time WHC had been threatened.

I will leave to the current WHC CCs to agree or disagree with this, and to provide reasons why if they so wish but this was the view of the FC team before the eviction. Our observation however was that the Community Coordinators did not feel they were given much authority to do things in WHC, including dealing with the cultural issues in the community, or pretty much make any decisions independently from the management.
White also put some additional observations on this here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_c0 ... yg84iyyvon

To be clear – the current eviction very likely did not happen because of the reasons mentioned, it simply speaks to the combat readiness state of WHC when the eviction started. We need to find a much better balance between PVE and PVP in wormholes in the future.

- A note on the FC team itself.

The views within the FC team itself may divide on this. My observations on the FC team are the following.
The mainline body of the senior FC team were mainly interested in teaching newbies how to FC, and we generally lacked people whose primary interest was strategic warfare. The exception to that is probably White Orchids (formerly known as Lonez) but he is generally busy in his primary alliance in the game, and Archemide who only joined the SFC team during the eviction itself.

The rest of us were more enthusiastic about the teaching side of the FC team. While the current FC team managed to establish a good working relationship with NSC in terms of fleets and teaching, we did not successfully establish similar good relationships with WHC.
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Events and thoughts on the eviction

Post by Gideon Mastracci jr »

3. Events and thoughts on the eviction

The story of the eviction itself is in large part Archemide’s story, as he was the primary FC for the defence fleet, his AAR is again linked here: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 6&t=128251

He tells the story of what happened during the final timer, how the capital ships were used, and what happened to the secondary defence fleet that got launched into space accidentally because many things were happening at the same time. Those are conditions that are a fertile ground for human error.

- A note on the capital ships in WHC.

There were several HAW dreads that were ultimately used in the fleet and some armour FAXes that were not useful to a shield fleet, and therefore were destroyed to not fall into hostile hands. There were also quite a few carriers that weren’t useful against the kind of fleet we were facing, and we did not have enough to reach a critical mass for them to be effective. There was one shield FAX that was re-fitted by cannibalising other capitals. The issue of capital ships had been raised in the past, but seemed to have disappeared in the usual slow way the university goes about things – the ‘FC team director’ is the CEO, so other directors normally feel it is at least somewhat ‘out of their lane’. We also have few active directors, and since Eve University is not a military organisation like many other organisations in Eve, they have a very large number of things on their plate in addition to strategic matters – especially at a time when they are not urgent. According to the people in the FC team who deal with this, it was just one of those things that fell into line behind many other things that would eventually have to be done. The unintended result was that the capital fleet was largely not useful for the eviction fight, except for the HAW dreads and the shield FAX.

- A note on communication.

A separate channel was made quite early on by Devalt that included situation update pings. One of such pings did very strongly advise avoiding engaging with the opposition in order to not lose pods. That was probably a mistake since the community members then felt unable to do anything that does not have an FC team member in the lead.

There was a point where a community coordinator had a workable plan to break hole control but was shut down by certain community members as ‘not having any authority’ without the FC team sign-off. Ironically, Archemide had been consulted on that plan by the CC and had given it a go-ahead.

Aside from the fact that WHC should in general be much more empowered to be self-sufficient (discussed in a later section), it is obvious in hindsight that the FC team should have worked with the community coordinators much more from the start. That was partly due to the fact that, upon discovering the corp theft, there was uncertainty about who we could and could not trust. It was also partly due to bandwidth issues because the FC team members were engaged in dealing with things that would have been better to figure out in advance given the predictable nature of actual eviction attempts – such as what to do with corp and member assets, how to get more members into the hole, refitting the capitals in WHC, etc.
According to Arps: ‘I think it’s worth reflecting on the fact that we were aware of some of these matters as they were emerging, but didn’t have the numbers of people or structure of command in place to address the problems we were seeing in front of us. As a more straightforward example of what I’m trying to say: on the weekend before Christmas time for everyone was at a premium and we just didn’t have enough people around to deal with the emerging picture who also had the knowledge/skill/authority mix to act quickly. More directors who are active could help. We would welcome more SFCs if there were some suitable candidates available too, especially those who play in WHC space’

Another lesson is that very early on a Fleet Commander and an overall ‘Operational Commander’ (you can call it whatever you want) should have been chosen and pinged right away. That would have gone some way towards avoiding uncertainty about who oversees what, and who to ask questions. That would also have avoided doubling efforts in terms of disposing of assets and probably the loss of the second defence fleet where a manager took it upon himself to make decisions that should not have been made by him. Also covered by Arche and Jalxan here: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 65#p960319

Do note that the assertion: ‘The FC's had not spoken to us much about our efforts.’ - is incorrect. The rest is in the post.

- A note on hole control

Several ongoing attempts were being made to get people into Innuendo during the eviction. There was a multi-hour fleet that was trying to break hole control and get people inside that succeeded in bringing in maybe 20 people in. It was folded when people able to lead such an effort dried up.
After that there was an effort to roll a C2 static in a different wormhole system in the hopes of beating the mathematics and rolling into Innu which also lasted quite a few hours and was ultimately unsuccessful and stood down again before going for trying to break hole control again just before the main defence fleet started.

We now recognise that a much bigger emphasis should have been placed on trying to break hole control, since with a relatively low number of actual people behind the attacker fleet, forcing them to continuously scan and roll new holes would have likely induced some serious burnout and led to mistakes. This thought had been confirmed by some out of corp parties that were there to advise and help with defence.

We now also recognise that it would have likely been a good decision to make a major push towards gaining hole control using max force in WHC including using capital assets rather than waiting for the final Fortizar timer, with maximum numbers waiting outside the hole trying to get in. Archemide said so in his own AAR, but the fault does not lie with him alone, since we as a group did not move to that as the main thrust of the defence. And the CCs who felt that it is a realistic prospect both did not feel empowered to enact it and were also shut down by some of the members of the community as discussed above.

The rest is the story Archemide told, as linked above. That forum thread also includes the story of how the second defence fleet cobbled together out of member assets and buyback ships was launched into space by mistake.

I was the 2IC for the fleet while gunning the fort, and definitely was not able to take over from Arche to a good level indeed. My strengths lie elsewhere, but since we had no other senior people who could see the grid and I was the only one who did have an Alpha toon in the hole, we had what we had.
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Lessons learned, some proposed solutions - for the FC team, WHC and uni-wide.

Post by Gideon Mastracci jr »

4. Lessons learned, some proposed solutions - for the FC team, WHC and uni-wide.

- Mandatory full AA tracking for all staff roles with any in game asset access.
One of the more obvious points. Not going to definitively deter corp theft but is done as a standard in other alliances and gives better asset oversight. It is not perfect, but much better than no tracking.

- SFCs and directors should mandatorily have at least alpha toons in WHC.

One major problem was senior people being out with the wormhole when entrances to it were closed. One solution to it would be for the senior team – including SFCs and directors – to have alpha alts in the three stagings, or at least in WHC since it is the only area that can be effectively closed off. They would not be able to fly complex ships, but the more salient impact is having the people there, able to lead and support fleets, and deal with strategic assets. We were lucky for Archemide to be present with his main in WHC. I was lucky to have such a toon in WHC as well, which I was able to use during the operation to man the Fortizar. We were able to bring White’s toons into the hole through hole control because they were in a different alliance and the people holding hole control were unfamiliar with them. Unfortunately, White could only help with capital asset destruction, since he was needed on a large fleet in his main alliance and was not present during the WHC final battle himself. However, senior people being able to be on grid, deal with the assets, and direct the fleets would have given us many more options.

- Roles and asset access.

Essentially the lesson here is that, beyond the obvious, character tracking in AA, and to get rid of old characters with roles. Not everybody, even in the SFC team, needs access to everything. White touched on it rather well here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_c0 ... jajo8efjtx

- A ‘fleet support group’ of sorts should be created.

I don’t know the exact shape of that, but it would be useful to have a group of people who do ancillary roles for fleets like - have cynos they can light, have capital toons, are happy to do Fleet Instructor roles, have locator agents, etc. That would have helped us massively in terms of finding capital pilots for WHC way quicker. It is something that has been a feature in other alliances I have been in and seems like a missed opportunity for us.

- WHC defence strategy will have to look differently.

At the time of writing, White together with the WHC CCs is working on new doctrines and fits for future WHC defence. The strategies will also have to be rethought. White touched on it in his document in this section: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_c0 ... xsbp2wap4b

There will always be disagreement about the ideal balance between accessibility and ability to function as a full member of a community, but there is nothing wrong with having an area that asks for a relatively modest commitment as well as requirements for entry.

The blanket ‘FC team takes care of the defence’ that had been implicitly put in place has to be reversed at least partly. Details have been started to be thrashed out to a degree, but the next chosen staging will have to be taken into account for things to be finalised. For the rest, do follow the link and read the section indicated.

- Defence assets

In hindsight, it is obvious that complete centralisation of defence assets was a bad idea. Some form of corp stocks will likely have to be a factor, as you will probably always need to give away some ships, since as always not everyone will have everything needed at all times, etc. But it is also clear that we might need to go back to a form of the old WHC way of members having Home Defence ships in their personal assets as well. They will likely be more expensive ships than Feroxes, but you need more substantial frames to be able to contest opposition in smaller numbers.

If memory serves, the old HD doctrine was a form of Heavy Armour and was gradually abandoned when the meta changed. However, we know that our chosen ‘strength in numbers’ Ferox strategy does not work either.

Last time anything remotely similar happened in WHC was 2020. Hard Knocks anchored an Astra in WHC and started hitting our structures. That time however was not a ‘real’ eviction as the main intent was to force a fight. It was decided that we should treat it as a real eviction and give it everything we have, since the FC team of the day had little doubt that it would have turned into one if WHC was not defended vigorously.
The opfor of the day did not concentrate on hole control very much and therefore WHC members managed to regain it and get a substantial number of unistas in shuttles and haulers in without being contested. The Ferox fleet did work at the time precisely because of the aforementioned fact. White, the then FC team manager, also brought a fleet of 80 or so HACs from Waffles, his then main alliance.

The same strategy did not work this time since this was a bona fide eviction attempt and opfor engaged in hole control very well. Which means the defence would have been shaky even if the fleet had not been stolen as mentioned by Arps in the DoW podcast.

- Wormhole assets.

According to some sources, somewhere between 1 and 1.5 trillion had dropped from Innuendo structures when they got killed. Since the staging Fortizar had been flipped around 6 months before the eviction, this suggests that members with large amounts of assets might have simply moved them between structures being flipped. There might have been more corporation assets there that would have been healthy to hold as well, though we are told their value did not not make a significant part of the overall value dropped. While clearly not a problem any more, we do not have a solution for this as of yet for the future.

- Basic wormhole group functions like structure flips should fully or partly be returned to a WHC led operation.

WHC structure flips (anchor a new one, give people time to take their assets over, unanchor the old one) are done to prevent having large ‘loot piñatas’ in wormhole space, and therefore become an attractive eviction target. Let’s leave aside the fact that it clearly has not worked for now. They used to be a WHC purview and the only time where a WHC staging Fortizar had been flipped successfully. Over time, it became an FC team function and after Sparklez left was simply taken on by logistics without even informing the FC team in advance. That is a whole other story of mismanagement and bad decisions. A quick example of such mismanagement was put forward by one of the previous WHC community coordinators. There was a small incident where a WHC structure was reinforced and the community went into hole control to protect the structure being contested when the reinforcement timer elapsed. The community coordinators procured some rolling ships to have access to them in a hurry without having to wait for the FC team to intervene. They were told by Sparklez and Jack that such assets had to go to the FC team instead and anything defence related was now the purview of the FC team.

Then some time later, according to Laura Karpinski who took over FC team management from Sparklez - when Laura took over as manager they met with Jack on mumble to discuss a couple of things. She asked if they could get a plan together for structure flips in WHC which at the time were supposed to be a joint operation between logistics and the FC team. Jack told Laura that it was 'none of her business' and logistics department was now fully responsible for this. He said that they would let the FC team know if a defence fleet was deemed necessary.

Clearly, that approach did not work. Regardless of the bad relationship with the FC team, the WHC community itself was systematically deprived of the means to operate independently. To make matters worse, the functions taken over, were then enacted very incompetently. For example, the Fortizars were accidentally unanchored before their planned time not once, but twice leaving the community coordinators to scramble to clean it up afterwards. There also seem to be many unanswered questions in the community about the fact that Lazerhawks stole the second Fortizar core very quickly after it happened. While it could be explained by actions of a group that is very competent at what they do, this also shows that the trust of the community had been lost.

This is relevant to WHC defence in two ways:

Taking away the ownership of fundamental wormhole group functions from the community takes away the ownership from the community of their own welfare. And then doing those fundamental functions very badly takes away the trust of the membership that even basic standards of competence will be upheld. You then lose the ability to retain competent members as they will very quickly look elsewhere (as they are doing already), and also the moral authority to ask members to do almost anything, including keeping relatively expensive HD ships in their hangars.
The FC team – or a logistics department for that matter - is a changeable group with people coming and going, and the quality of fundamental functions of a community should not depend on the particular constellation of competencies in departments that may not have many ties to the community.

Whether it is done in part or in full can depend on the specifics organisation directors want to enact, but so far, the experience shows that anything other than this approach has failed dramatically.

- The FC team needs to be more than a middle-management group in the organisation.

In short, at the very least, there needs to be a combat director. Over the course of the existence of the FC team, it was a hostage of the whims and moods of whatever leadership was above it. Starting from not even being told about structure anchors in hostile space in advance, to being unable to even order frigate sized ships of a relatively low value without leadership sign-off, to being pretty much in the dark about any strategic planning in terms of stagings, whether in NSC or WHC.

Firstly, the FC team director currently and for the past several tenures has been the CEO. It is not ideal, since Eve Uni is a sprawling organisation with the CEO being responsible for a large number of other areas in the organisation and therefore having a comparatively small amount of bandwidth to dedicate to running the military arm. It does not matter whether the CEO of the day is a good strategist and is an FC themselves, or not. They are simply drawn into too many directions at once and there should be a director level member of the Eve University military arm who is able to make many more of the decisions quickly.

Secondly, although Eve University is not a military organisation, the simple fact is that the largest upheavals in the Eve University community in recent memory have come from problems of military nature. Having an equal voice at the table that plans are made and information is known would be the beginning of a solution in terms of not having a McDonalds type ‘cook-according-to-recipe-when-asked’ type of FC team. FCs are some of the more skilled positions in the game, and that should be harnessed when making decisions.

We will always struggle to recruit and hold on to highly competent FCs if the FC team as a department are not given an equal seat at the table in the organisation. The military arm needs to know what is happening, not just have the bits of information that the directors feel like sharing at the time. It does not work with the type of personality that often holds the position of an FC, especially a strategic level FC, since their mandate is normally to achieve things, not engage in 50 rounds of discussions about minute things. You could say that it is proper that decisions are challenged. And some decisions are challenged even when a director is making them. But there are some that should really be just a matter of deciding and moving onto more important things. This is something that has not worked very well with even the best-meaning directors/CEOs. They may be ‘good with listening to experts’. But we simply will not be able to hold on to really competent people if we don’t give them the ability to execute their mandate.

It does not work at arm’s length, however much the people making the decisions ‘have good judgement to listen to people who know more than they do’. Many decision makers self-assess this ability as being much higher than it actually is. I cannot be bothered with finding actual research papers on this while writing a document for a computer game, but at least in the healthcare scene there definitely is a body of evidence pointing towards it.

And finally, there is a larger point to be made – you don't just need a military director. You need more directors. And more active ones. The decisions in general should be made by people with a good and current working knowledge of the game. Quoting White from his document: ‘You should not be letting people make decisions that fundamentally change how the uni works, or blocking ideas that have good merit, without the proper context to be able to make those decisions. Which if this is someone who doesn't engage with the community on comms, undock for fleets, have good connections to other organisations, you simply cannot have.’ (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_c0 ... yg84iyyvon)

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Re: [AAR] WHC eviction from the FC team point of view

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Re: [AAR] WHC eviction from the FC team point of view

Post by Zeeroak Ool »

Thanks for all the effort you've put into this Gideon, it's a very thorough account.
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Re: [AAR] WHC eviction from the FC team point of view

Post by Laura Karpinski »

Thanks for the detailed account and reflections. I'm sure it's some uncomfortable reading at times, but I sincerely hope every Director will read the whole thing and all the comments.
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Re: [AAR] WHC eviction from the FC team point of view

Post by Kamille Panala »

Thank you for this thorough analysis, Gideon.
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Re: [AAR] WHC eviction from the FC team point of view

Post by Barky Hashur »

Here's hoping a proper military director will emerge
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Re: [AAR] WHC eviction from the FC team point of view

Post by eFishCent »

Thank you for writing this up. It gave me lots of key learnings that as a noob at Eve Uni and an aspiring WormHole Campus member who wants to help WHC 2.0 to be more successful. In the meantime I will learn simple PvP via Faction Warfare as I await WHC reincarnation.
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Re: [AAR] WHC eviction from the FC team point of view

Post by Delaney Mikkei Truffault »

As one of the unofficially quoted CCs in this post, I just wanted to confirm that this write-up is coherent with what I have experienced in this eviction.

I will also say I agree with the diagnosis of improper localised control and analysis paralysis and the need for shake-up at a management and directorate level. I will say more directors, more delegation and better control and audits are required. I will not venture to give an opinion on what roles and structures should look like until the full AAR from directors is submitted.

Finally, I would personally like to thank the outstanding SFCs and FC team leaders who showed up and were on the front line of us organizing a defense for WHC.


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Re: [AAR] WHC eviction from the FC team point of view

Post by Zeros Mu »

I have an idea.
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Yuri Titov
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Re: Before the eviction: The WHC and the FC team

Post by Yuri Titov »

Gideon Mastracci jr wrote: 2024.01.18 01:20 It has been the experience of the various FC team members that WHC had become drained of experienced members. This meant that there was a lower than usual capability to engage in more complex kinds of PVP.
I think this is an important, if not the key point that needs an in-depth discussion and a potential root cause analysis.

Some of my observations after coming back to the game recently following a 4 year hiatus.

*Few days ago we scanned a chain with close to 50 systems, or 2%?? of the entire wormhole space; there was no PvP to be had.
*Large number of C3's we connect to are empty with no structures at all.
*C5 space is basically all crab holes.

Looking at the state of WH space it is only natural that PvP players have left and were replaced by PvE players.

PvP players will not go back to the space where there is no PvP. I'm not sure that some administrative changes like directors having toons in WHC is going to change the eventual outcome i.e. another 1T in assets eventually being blown up by a different group or maybe even the same one.

We can't pretend that this issue does not exist and we can somehow bring back the old WHC while everything around it has changed.


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I'll add to this once I'm back from work.
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Hideo Date
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Re: [AAR] WHC eviction from the FC team point of view

Post by Hideo Date »

Thanks for the thorough write-up and very interesting insights and analysis.
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