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Post by BedDaBaws »

BR: https://zkillboard.com/related/31000382/202105010300/
Their Comp: https://dscan.info/v/c635919dc01c
Our Comp: 5 Guards, 6 Sacs, 6 Dreks, 1 Absolution, 1 Eos, a few blackbirds.

Prelude to the fight:
As some of you may have seen from the ping before this fight, we were worried that this may have been the prelude to an eviction fleet. This notion was sparked by the fact that one of our scouts has spotted a KRYPTED and Holesale fleet flying together 2j out of eggs. The holesale fleet was pretty clearly an eviction fleet with many leshaks/nestors/DSTs, while the krypted fleet was a more standard HA fleet. When KRYPTED showed up on our doorstep with an eviction fleet nearby we were (rightly or wrongly) spooked into thinking it was an eviction, causing the response to the fleet to be slow and unusual. After they sat there for a number of minutes, no Holesale showed, and no DSTs moved in, we realized it was probably just a fleet looking for a fight.

Because of the ping that hinted at an eviction, we had a lot of number reads for the formup. Our initial comp was roughly 5 guardians, 1 absolution, 6 sacs and 6 dreks with an assorted number of blackbirds. Formup went rather smoothly, the only hiccup I remember from the formup was possibly calling the wrong ammo type for sacs to load, but it probably did not play a major factor in the fight. One thing that occured to me after the fight was reutilizing the mid slots in sacs, geared towards more jams for their nestor and guardians. I noticed after the fight that most if not all of their sacs were fit with 2 jams in the mids, which was pretty vital in them stopping drek spool, leading to them being able to hold our dps fairly easily at the start.

The fight:
Warp-in to the fight started rather sporadically, I got a call from the scout that he had a warpin on top of the guardians of the enemy fleet, and I decided to warp the fleet despite there being a devoter bubble in line with the guards. This warp in got us on top of the guards, but also right next to their dd. Guardians warped at range, but due to the bubble got dragged in beside the dd. This ended up not mattering as the guards were able to easily pull range, but a better warp in should be secured in the future, probably through warping to a perch first and then warping to the enemy dd/logi. Once the fight actually started, jams were told to be put on a random enemy logistics along with ec drones. The neut was told to be put on a specific enemy dd. In hindsight, the neuts could have been put to much greater use either by attempting to neut out their links, or by putting neuts on the nestor that was right next to our dd (something that probably would have made the fight MUCH easier for us).

As the fight starts, primaries are called, and we get to work on breaking their sacs. It starts out slow with us only getting one sac kill in about 3 minutes, but eventually as blackbirds started landing jams, we were able to break their logi more comfortably, they re-approached the hole, and eventually jumped through after losing a total of 3 sacs.

One thing that I didn't notice about the enemy fleet until the fight was already over was their target selection and ecm selection. As you may have already noticed on the battle report, we only lost drekavacs in that fight. I was told after the fight that pretty much every drekavac pilot was jammed out for the whole fight by their sacrileges and a single kitsune.

  • Our HA doctrine flies very weirdly. The two mainline ships in the doctrine are the Sac and the Drek, which have conflicting fighting styles. The drek wants to spool on one target until the spool overtakes logi reps, while the sacrilege wants to control the fight using jams, and take out ships by constantly switching their target and confusing logi. Unfortunately, as was displayed in this fight, drekavacs can be pretty countered in ecm's are used correctly. This this fight, the enemy fleet was able to stop spool on pretty much every drek through effective communication and traget switching. Every dreks was also primaried before sacs due to their higher signature radius and lower resist profile. Overall, the combination of these two ships in the same doctrine can make for awkward target calling if you expect to have spool dps, but spool keps getting ecm'd or conversely if you try to target switch and get minimal dps due to drek spool. This was not managed very well by me in the fight, and in the future I just need to talk to pilots to figure out whether dreks are actually able to spool, or whether I should just be target switching.
  • ECM's played a very large role in this fight, and need to be leveraged more effectively on our side. THeir fleet of sacs and one kitsune was able to effectively nullify half of our dps wing and some of our logistics at the same time. In this fight specifically, we needed an answer to their kitsune that went unchecked the whole fight, but we could have also used our ECM more effectively by refitting sacs to double ecm instead of a scram or a web, and by calling for more blackbird pilots.
  • Alongside ECM's, neuts could have been used much more effectively during the fight. At the start of the fight, I called for sacs and dreks to put their neut on a specific enemy sacrilege, due to the guardians being out of range for the majority of the fight. What I did not notice was that the whole time, there was a nestor that was easily within neut range of the entire fleet, which would have been a much better target instead of a single sac losing his prop and ecms.
  • Booshers were not utilized in the fight despite their logi not being protected by a hic. I need to remember to call for booshers and we need to get used to using them more often. In that fight it is very likely that a booshers could have gotten most of their guards in one go.
Overall, the fight was a lot of fun, even though were didn't win the isk war, we pushed them off the field, which I will count as a win.
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Post by Sekoton »

I certainly took away some things from this fight as well.

- As noted, EWAR is becoming a bigger thorn in the side across our brawley doctrines. We need to get better at defanging drones. I also think we need something to screen against EWAR frigs like Kitsunes, as they've proved to be a pain recently, or in the case of last nights fight, instruct our blackbirds to prioritise the kitsune as well as enemy logi and such.

- As was mentioned in the debrief last night, a possible way to work around the conflicting fighting style of the drekevac and sacrilege is to pick a target for the dreks to spool on, and target switch every 20-30 seconds or so with the sacrileges in order to split enemy logi and confuse them, before switching back to the initial target when dreks have spooled.

- In hindsight, I should've went out in a scanner alt upon the first sighting of the Krypted/Holesale fleet and kept tabs on both fleets if possible, as I was only watching the KRYPTED fleet and so when they all immediately warped to eggs I got concerned that the holesale fleet was going to be right behind them, which led me to tell everybody to stay in station and stay docked until we see if holesale turns up. In reality, it all turned out to be mere coincidence, thankfully. If it had been an eviction fleet, my main would've been trapped outside of the hole as I doubt I would've been able to get back in before they took hole control.

- On a positive note, combat comms were really good on this fight. I think I only recall one instance of unnecessary chatter, which was after KRYPTED had disengaged and we were clearing the field. Good job everybody.

All in all, good job Bed. I appreciate you stepping up and taking the reigns of FCing it. I apologise if it seemed like I pushed you into it. (I did 2IC though :P)

also write more AARs REEEEEE
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Kithian Hastos
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Post by Kithian Hastos »

As a pilot new to Trig ships I learned a few things. My Drek got jammed out and primaried early, but I didn't know how relevant the information was so I chose not to break comm discipline. At that point we were also too far from the hole to jump it (though I did try approaching) and stuck in a bubble so I couldn't warp out. In the end I chose to die in silence, slow boat my capsule out of the bubble, and reship to a Blackbird. But by then the fight was pretty much over.

It was only afterwards in the debrief and looking at the battle report that I realized that every loss on our side was a Drek. My conclusion is the same as the FCs, that their strategy was to jam the Dreks to prevent spooling and primary them as a squishier target than a Sac.

In hindsight, the fact that the Dreks were effectively jammed and primaried was relevant information to the FC. But as an individual DD pilot, how would I know to make that call? I thought maybe if it was a problem then Logi would say they are losing too many ships, but it turned out that Logi also had their own jam, cap and position problems to deal with so that's understandable.

Maybe in a big fleet with multiple pilots of the same ship type there could be room for a [insert DD] sub commander. That person could then be tasked with keeping track of how many of their [insert DD] subtype have been lost/warped away/jammed, then bring it to the FCs attention if it is becoming an issue.
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