[AAR] Curse Deployment - Retributions

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Penelore

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Post 2019.01.12 14:18

[AAR] Curse Deployment - Retributions

Roam members (11)
SPOILER WARNING!
Alex Hide - Stiletto, Slasher
Caladius - Retribution
Drault Sarn - Punisher
Drebin 679 - Punisher, Enyo
Ged Sinak - Malediction
John Parmelee - Punisher, Slasher
Marcus Arilia - Punisher
Penelore - Retribution
Shizuka Shinano - Punisher
Xyrin Bacard - Slasher
Z0X Ambrye - Stiletto


I had put this fleet on the calendar as a direct response to my welp earlier this week to shake off the jitters. I failed to see some conflicts on the calendar in my haste, and my draw was pretty low. Only 11 people showed. Plus I had a number of people who couldn't fly the AF doctrine and would be sporting Punishers and Slashers. My game-plan changed.

The few people I had who wanted to fly logi I told to re-ship into DD ships. We weren't going to have enough dps to break anything strong enough for us to fight and need logi. So this was going to be a pure gank and run roam. My original plan had been moving to the center of Catch and seeing if I could get in a fairly big fight. I wanted to work on target calling in a multiple ship engagement, but Bob's will was otherwise.

While waiting for people to arrive my scout was out and about in the neighborhood making sure people didn't get popped on the way into Litom. I knew for a while we had a Gnosis and Stabber looking for a fight. They had been positioning for about 15m and I was still waiting on 1 person to arrive. The Gnosis and Stabber started leaving and I didn't want to lose them so I called undock.

We finally caught up to the duo in Jamunda. The stabber was hiding on the opposite side of the gate and the Gnosis was baiting. But the Stabber was my real target, I didn't want any part of the bait-Gnosis. We engaged the gnosis softly on the gate and the stabber jumped in. Immediately I called everyone to burn hard out to the Stabber and leave the Gnosis alone. The Stabber probably panic's because we blapped him and I called the fleet to anchor on me MWD on and I pulled hard range on the Gnosis.

Big mistake of the night coming up right here.

The Gnosis got dragged out to range by our antics and I started to get greedy. He was 50km off the gate and had turned around and was slow boating back. I thought maybe we could take him now if we got in on him fast and burned. Honestly a full AF fleet comp might have broken him but our dps was low and he tanked us into irrelevence. I finally called scatter after a few losses. He picked me as his final target and I ADC'd him until the fleet was off. Called re-ship since we were only 2 jumps out and planned to start again.

Kills and Losses

(02:57:03) Jamunda
Punisher -5.98m
Stabber +26.23m
Punisher -6m
Capsule +0.01m
Retribution -88.44m
Stiletto -44.11m

I'm afraid the roam itself might have been fairly boring for some of the fleet members. But it was highly exciting for myself and the scouts. We were constantly running from response fleets. The whole point of this roam had changed to gank and run so speed was my only defense.

The ganking part of the plan went fairly poorly. I changed the route plan to stay out of the center of Catch and hit outlying ratting areas then move into Providence. It made for long burns through empty systems with only a few stops to shotgun branches along the way. We were unsuccessful in all our shotgunning and the-little-VNIs-that-could continue to bear another day.

Breaking gate-camps and escaping response fleets became the order of the day. Intel was crazy as I was working with a secondary scout who was no-coms. I really wanted to practice working with a no-coms scout, but he quickly got separated from the fleet in the first gate-camp we broke through. Ever resourceful he roamed independently taking back routes to meet up with us. It provided fantastic intel to me about where to break away from the planned route because of HUGE response fleets waiting for us. I was able to keep our response engagement down to manageable groups and he eventually caught up with us in Providence.

While I don't think it would ever be argued that working with a no-coms scout is quite difficult on both the FC and the scout, if he is acting as a secondary scout, or a -1 scout, focused on intel over tackle, and works well independently it is definitely doable. You both just need to put in the effort.

Providence provided a few gate camps to gauntlet, and on one of them I liked the position of the Sabre on the gate in reference to the rest of the engagement. I called to burn to him and tackled him far off the gate. He bubbled himself in his panic and we blapped him. I have a thing against Sabres at the moment... I'll admit.

(04:00:58) 8P9-BM
Sabre +115.31m
Capsule +40.01m

I decided to exit to Dital and take a low sec roam home to Litom. The final challenge came in jumping the smart-bombing gate camp that would inevitably be at Dital. Intel was spotty, they were on gate, they weren't on gate. I yolo'd us. The fast warpers died and the timing was off on the rest of us... thanks for your sacrifice boys o7

(04:13:30) KBP7-G
Stiletto -48.03m
Slasher -1.85m
Capsule -0.01m
Capsule -0.01m

The low sec roam home was boring and sad. I was willing to sit a large if I found a system with more than 5 people in it just to get a decent engagement, but alas Bob punished me for my arrogance on the Gnosis and it was not to be.

Stats
ISK Destroyed: 181,566,850.44
ISK Lost: 194,423,425.29
ISK Delta: -12,856,574.85
Efficiency: 48.29%

SUMMARY:
1. Planning a fleet as a direct response to welping is a good idea no matter how many people come... just do it
2. Adjusting your game-plan to low turn out is totally doable
3. If you know you don't have the dps to break it, avert your eyes from the shininess... it's a trick.
4. No-Coms Scouts can be intel/secondary scouts... but it takes work
5. Sabres gotta die...
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Marcus Arilia

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Post 2019.01.12 16:15

Re: [AAR] Curse Deployment - Retributions

Thanks Pen! It was a really fun fleet (even if I spent most of it wandering Sov-Null in a lone Punisher.

Couple call outs. One is the switch to no logi. A lot of the doctrine DDs are setup as non-self rep. Moving to DD only is less of an issue with low sec and npc null due to the Freeports you can find to rep up, however in Sov-null you lose that ability. For this fleet there was more evading than engaging due to camps and fleets. However if we had found a lot of engagements our fleet would have continuously gotten squishier as people took armor and hull damage.

Also, great job on the clear coms. I noticed the fleet listened pretty well when evading with an exit and engaging the Stabber. When the Caracal fleet came and people were flustered I noticed the coms discipline from the fleet members deteriorate a good bit. Two or three people specificallly were talking over you or questioning a few of your orders on routes out rather than following them. Bugged me a little bit, but not a big deal.

In addition, great job on changing your route on the fly. Definitely managed to avoid a welp that way and make sure even the newbros got some kills and didn’t wipe. Quick thinking on a route can save a fleet and you did it quite well.

An evaluation of the gate camps as well. I went through two in a lone Punisher and managed to survive. I got split up from the fleet acting as eyes 100 off a gate and having to bounce after they were through so I was slightly behind them. The first one had about three Sabres. This is the one that separated me. They put the bubble up after I jumped (likely frustrated our whole fleet made it through) however I was able to burn back to gate, and none of the Sabres jumped with me to bubble the other side, so I scooted out of there with half armor. To be fair the only reason I survived this next one was a fitting change where at the beginning when we didn’t have logi, I added a SAAR (shame on me for changing the doctrine though). Found a another way in to try and meet up with fleet but this camp was huge. First gate had probably 20 on grid, but no bubble so I got out. Next gate I jumped bubble was tethered but a Sabre still on grid. They tried to burn me and again I burned to gate with an overheated SAAR running and they didn’t follow for about 30 sec and by then I was bouncing celestials. There’s no reason a lone punisher should have made it through that many gate camps alive with that many Sabres, though I’m not complaining.

Had a great time even though by the time I found a way to connect the fleet was finishing up. Made quite a good solo adventure, and managed to get some intel to fleet not to take their intended route home.
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Durnik Risalo

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Post 2019.01.12 17:55

Re: [AAR] Curse Deployment - Retributions

Nice AAR -- a definite +1 on stating the evolution of your thinking and fleet/personal goals.
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Coaxster

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Post 2019.01.12 18:18

Re: [AAR] Curse Deployment - Retributions

Oh I wouldn't call the gnosis fight an incorrect call. I'd say it falls (barely) w/in my 20% rule -- that is, sure, odds were not great, but not impossible if your whole fleet was present. And it turns out that gnosis died about 10 minutes later. With dual cap boosters and triple reps, yeah, tough nut. But how did that fight go exactly? If y'all stayed out of scram/web range his dps application should've been lousy on frigs. True, your dps would've been lousy at that range as well. So they'd've probably gotten back to gate (though scram/web passes by non-primaried peeps could've made that tight). Patience is the key in a situation like that one. Though yeah I think once I saw signs of triple reps I'd've probably moved on...
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Ged Sinak

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Post 2019.01.12 19:29

Re: [AAR] Curse Deployment - Retributions

One of the main problems I see with our engagement of the Gnosis is our blatant lack of DPS on the field. Looking on the zkill report, it seems like nearly 3/4 of the fleet was in Punishers, not assault frigates. If we were actually in assault frigates I believe we could have taken the Gnosis down. In relation to that, I believe anyone down in the NSC or attending the NSC deployments though be training or have trained the Retribution. It is outlined in the basic doctrines for NSC and as we can see in this situation, only a few people could actually fly it. For anyone wishing to consult the skill plans please use this link: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 2&t=110809

As Coaxter states, the Gnosis would have had bad application if we were OUTSIDE its scram web range. Your call to hug the Gnosis was incorrect. With lasers, we have the ability to load mid range ammo and apply fine to the Gnosis. Once we started hugging it, it was able to scram, web and neut us. Also, when we did end up engaging the Gnosis it was already around 30km off the gate and we would have had plenty of time to kill it before it had burned back to gate and its engagement timer had run out.

In Providence when we were running away from the 30 man caracal gang, you did a very good job in killing the Sabre before warping off. It was a good pick and we made a very nice escape down the pipe and back into high sec. Personally, I would have tried to stay a bit and pick a few people off. Possibly doing a bait warp to another gate so the Caracals followed us, but then warping back and picking off a few of their support. They had a sort of forward vanguard with an Arbitrator and an ONI that were staying on the gate. After the sabre was down, we would have probably been able to move in for a quick gank before the Caracal gang caught up with us and warped off before anyone got tackled.

One thing I noticed is that you are afraid of going into a kinda risky situation and playing with the enemy. For example, on our first gatecamp right outside of Litom, I would have probably stayed and tried to bait the smaller ships into engagements. Their main DPS was the Dominixes on gate, and if we had possibly baited a sabre to follow us we could have killed it and got out before the Dominixes could have landed.

Those paragraphs might have sounded a bit harsh so I want to sum it up with something good. With your running, you denied the enemy the content and made them look like fools for forming up such a big gang that was a direct counter to our little ten man gang. Secondly, the fleet did an excellent job with following your commands and getting out of harm's way. They followed your exact commands without challenge and I don't believe that we lost a single person in those ten jumps that we were running away.

Fly dangerously everyone!

Ged
Retired Personnel Officer| Retired NSC Combat Officer | Retired Teacher | Retired FCC Staff

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Kelon Darklight

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Post 2019.01.12 23:18

Re: [AAR] Curse Deployment - Retributions

If there is normally a smartbomb gate camp in dital, might be useful to make a tactical or three on the gate and add them to corp. And have your own personal one. In a frigate fleet going to a gate tactical doesn't cost you that much time. Nothing I feel I should add to the gnosis fight personally. I have been that gnosis before, though not with that much tank.
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Drault Sarn

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Post 2019.01.13 21:35

Re: [AAR] Curse Deployment - Retributions

yes dps was lacking on the gnosis and sometimes when things camped you have to take long route as for scouts being in voice is almost mandatory. you did best you could with what you had. Nice walk about ty.

Thats something i need to be able to make a snap on what i have for dps and can i take something bigger with what i have.

for me that is something I will be come good at only by practicing with more fleets.
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