[FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

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Budda Sereda
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[FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

Post by Budda Sereda »

It is really hard to comment on this fleet... It was very educational, but it was a really painful knowledge and experience. Ok, bear with me.

The plan was for the day was:
1. Get NSC to undock.
2. Help newbros learning PvP.
3. Find content in Syndicate.

Disclarimer: as usually, I consider each fleet to me is a learning point: I learn to be a better pilot and FC and trying to give a learning opportunity to others. I will be identifying mistakes which I did. The same I will be pointing on mistakes which I believe were done by other pilots. I don't try to either blame anybody or remove responsibility from myself, but I hope to help pilots to learn.

Fleet Comp.

It is a rare case when I am able to undock form-up the proper fleet composition, I got: 3 Logies, Command Dessie, Dictor, Ceptor, 4 EWar (Griffin, Maulus, Bomber, and something else), and around of 6-7 DD: dream of any E-Uni FC. Few more pilots joined later.
* Nothing triggered my attention, that there are no good Shield fit for Maulus
Spoiler
Aiden Chance - Caracal
Archemide - Osprey
Arrek Lemmont - Osprey
BatFC - Caracal
Budda Sereda - Caracal
Cuentin Torino - Caracal
E Fyre - Caracal
Jackson Millenius - Caracal
Kento Auffrie - Maulus
Metti ar Virksen - Caracal
Micah McCain - Caracal
Mols Halleck - Stork
Neemo Beer - Caracal
Philbro Kishunuba - Caracal
Prince Tojo - Sabre
Regulus Dural - Griffin
Satoshi Tomeii - Raptor
Space Warfare Development - Nemesis (I believe)
Wokum - Caracal
Xafen Katapi - Osprey
Zephyr Sails - Ares, Maulus
The only small problem were :
* 2 logies, 1 DD were in Stacmon, and one of the pilots in Stacmon had his Sabre in PC9.
* quite a few pilots had the optimal range with faction missiles in range of 37-44km :( Keep training missile skills guys.
So the plan was to get fleet together in PC9 and harass whatever we can find.

Camp in OST.

It was a "lucky" day and somebody was camping OST. I got intel about Analiese and Coaxter and 2 ships on d-scan. I got the impression, they are from the same corp. Considering 2 out of 3 cap-chain logies were in PC9 and our only tackle were Satoshi in the Raptor and Mols in a Stork we would be lose many ships starting with a Stork, but would not be able to hold tackle on anything, so I decided to not engage.

Later Space reported that all flashies on OST are killed (Analiese's and Coaxster's job I guess)... which made realize they were from different corps and we would be able to engage and maybe survive... but without logies, with newbros and lack of tackle, I decided to continue going through the plan.

Coming to PC9.

I needed to hold in Harroule for 5 minutes (had some RL emergency :( sorry about that) and we continued moving towards PC9. After one of warps I was pointed that I don't let fleet enough time to align so I did slow down.

In MHC we have noticed a ceptor (or another small ship, don't remember the hull) and Leshak. There were some thoughts on engaging them, but with no logies, engaging a new BS which I don't have much clue about how they can be fit was not a good option.
It was a BS, we were able to jump through and align to outgate (EZA) when I heard from the scout about some more ships on d-scan. I gave fleet enough time to align (hopefully) and wanted to warp fleet to a EZA tactical but warped myself only. Some pilots did warp as they realized what's going on, but 3 left behind and did not realize what's going on and were killed.

(02:44:58) 6E-578
Caracal -13.92m
Caracal -14.03m
Caracal -37.02m

Metti and Micah received extra SRP from FC for doing stupid mistakes. What you could do to stay alive is to warp to FC. You would not land on the point I warped the whole fleet, but you would run out of danger.
Wokum: I'm sorry, you have enough experience to realize what's going on and run. Yup, my fault for not warping the fleet too.

Impacted by our slowness and loses ... I heard from a scout that some people are already in ZVN on 6E- gate. That confused me: why would people from PC9 be hear so fast? Did they move ahead of us? Why not waiting for fleet...? Dunno... But fine, if they are hear, then lets join.
But the moment we landed we got 2 Leshaks catch up, so I've asked fleet to algin to 6-C and warped (this time whole fleet) to 6-C tactical.

One of the infrequent good points for today: this time we were able to successfully disengage. Whoever was in ZVN I called to come back to PC9 (as the path looked clear).

Fight in JH-.

With some troubles, but with no losses we got into JH- on tactical. Gate was camped by Heretic and 2 Leshaks from 1 corp and Analiese(Confessor) and his corp-mate in Omen.
We were sitting on a gate at solid range, don't remember all details, but I believe that I confirmed all people in PC9 are ready to undock, warped fleet to a gate and warped fleet to a tactical with the goal to join the fleet.

We were engaged.

I did not teach and Regulus probably did not know that Griffins should fly at LONG range from opponents, aligned out, and warp away when in danger...
(02:59:21) JH-M2W, PC9-AY
Griffin -1.06m
Newbros: Griffin is not the best ship to learn PvP. Start with mainline DD ships, you will have logies backing you up.

Dunno how Micah died in PC9. I guess he warped to gate, did not hear command to jump, was engaged, probably started shooting back and was killed.
Caracal -14.03m
@Micah: can you share more details?

We could not kill those folks: Confessor was too fast and maintaining the range, Omen hid on the other side of the gate(?), Leshaks... don't remember details already, I believe 1 logy was still in PC9, we could not join somehow so I decided to regroup, called fleet to align to ZVN and when I felt it is safe warped us to a tactical. It looks like, logies were not that far from opponents and maybe did not complete the alignment... so Arrek was caught:

Osprey -19.29m
Velator -0.05m

I guess I should be able to get fleet closer to each other and warp afterwards... don't recall what forced me to rush with warp.

Analiese followed us on tactical. As we had a few pilots in PC9 reshipping (AGAIN, :() I needed to keep fleet in JH-. I probably should have called fleet to dock-up (at least some time ago there was a freeport citadel), but I intentionally warped us to a SAFE. We aligned to PC9 gate, and... while giving time for pilots in PC9 to reship, I was expecting somebody WILL combat scan us, land at 0 and we kill it.

I saw Zephyr in a ceptor quite FAR from our BLOB and asked him to come closer so he can tackle, but ...

Analiese is not that bad. He warped at 100, Zephyr was too far from logies and did not run away in time:
Ares -47.08m

Analiese bounced, but could not kill anything and disengaged.

Fight in PC9.

This time, I decided to jump fleet into PC9, join forces and after that come back.
And this time it went more organized. It happened that PC9 gate in JH- was clear, I landed fleet called fleet from PC9 to undock and warp to the gate. and when they were close we jumped.

There was an interesting fight, we had already 3 logies, enough DD and tackles.

Sabre -96.17m
Caracal -25.98m
Omen +43.45m
Prince Tojo: I believe that in a dictor you should not engage in a brawl, your goal is to drop the bubble and hide (cloak, jump through the gate, etc).
Or at least broadcast for reps. That was not too bad trade... we focused on Leshak, but we were bleeding:
Caracal -13.84m
Caracal -35.7m
We would may break it, but they lit a cyno, and jumped capitals.
Caracal -13.95m
Caracal -13.93m

We lost it in ISK and amount of kills, but that was a fight against overwhelming forces. 2 things about this engagement:
* I believe I was late reacting on cyno
* we probably stayed too close to Leshaks to run away in case of cyno drop.

Regroup in PC9.

We were bouncing between gates (why I did not call to dock-up?), Analiese was combat scanning us, I forgot we have small ships that could not catch reps:
(03:23:02) PC9-AY
Maulus -9.08m
@Xafen: no, Maulus was not alphaed by Analies, he got 3k ehp and was possible to be saved by logies (if broadcasted?)
Kento, why armor fit in a fleet with BLAP Caracals?

After this, we EVENTUALLY, from the 3rd try joined forces and moved on.

Analiese followed.
(03:33:33) EZA-FM
Atron -3.49m
Don't remember when and how he picked up this Atron: most likely somebody just left behind...

Satoshi tried to tackle Analiese and approached him:
Raptor -58.36m

But Analiese eventually made a mistake and died. Huh, at least something positive:
Confessor +60.3m
@Analiese: did you REALLY make a mistake? I feel you could just let us kill you, but this does not sound like a really reasonable argument.

Titan drop (2nd cyno).

We docked up and took a bio to wait for Satoshi to reship and catch up with us. At the same time, I've noticed few small ships around. I decided to bait them on station, kill small things and when they lit the cyno - run away.

But I missed 2 things:
* Devoter is a moving bubble
* Big Smart Bob can jump through the cyno.

So first I've baited Caracal on station. He was not shooting me, but instead got support. I was forced to kill fleet to undock. Caracal docked up, so we only killed Corax.

(03:46:25) EZA-FM
Corax +9.73m

At this moment we should probably have 'scored the frag' and disengaged, but I wanted to try Devoter's tank. Yes, it is tanky, but... if you are in a kity ship, warned about cyno, algined out... what can possible go wrong?

Devoter turned on his 'buble scram' (what's the proper name of that module+charge), so we could not warp away immediately. I did not worry to much at that time, just asked fleet to turn on MWD... But in few seconds my screen blinked and I appeared in Uphallant...

they dropped Titan and it demonstrated how doomsday works.

Osprey -9.31m
Caracal -38.28m
Caracal -32.01m
Caracal -35.61m
Caracal -38.47m
Caracal -35.82m
Caracal -13.88m
Caracal -14.78m
Caracal -13.77m
Osprey -20.28m

I've removed capsule losses to reduce the amount of redness on the board.

ISK Destroyed: 53,181,835.67
ISK Lost: 669,208,473.61
ISK Delta: -616,026,637.94
Efficiency: 7.362%

Please do submit your SRPs: https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Ship_Replacement_Program, yes, even if you received extended SRP from myself.

After the fleet, few of us had a practice Sisi and tried tackling a T3D with a ceptor. Ceptor can survive for some time by orbiting at some 25-27km, but not too long, but could not reliably hold it for quite awhile. At least we were not able to make it work before cluster shutdown forces us to disconnect.

Overall evaluation
  • (Positive stuff)
    * Quite a bit of content in Syndicate, I would definitely repeat it, but: it is my time to leave
    * Quite a lot of learning
    (Negative stuff)
    * Quite a lot of mistakes from my side (I've identified them above)
    * Slow reaction from the fleet on aligning. I do accept few times I was too quick. At the same time, few time pilots just did not react on commands.
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Kento Auffrie
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Re: [FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

Post by Kento Auffrie »

My choice of fit was partly based on my skills but mostly based on shield fit maulus not catching reps well at all, as they don't have slots to fit any resist modules past a DCU, so an armor fit will catch shield reps just as well, and gets an extra damp. also, i totally should have warped off as soon as analiese yellow boxed me.
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Erwin Madelung
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Re: [FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

Post by Erwin Madelung »

Budda Sereda wrote: (03:23:02) PC9-AY
Maulus -9.08m
@Xafen: no, Maulus was not alphaed by Analies, he got 3k ehp and was possible to be saved by logies (if broadcasted?)
Kento, why armor fit in a fleet with BLAP Caracals?
How do you want to fit a Maulus? Further it's the FCs job to control the comp. Including the snowflake fits of relatively new player.
Kento, in theory you should not have lost that Maulus. Your fit is faster than the confessor in propulsion mode. If you start to be in trouble you warp off if not pointed. Actually the confessor has no tackle fitted. If you were tackled by the Leshak which is a battleship you were really way to close. Thus you should have been able to warp off. As you are a relatively new player and this was probably your first time in this role such an error is totally expected. Just learn from it. If you fly snowflake roles you might consider to record yourself to see your positioning and so on better afterwards.
Budda Sereda wrote: they dropped Titan and it demonstrated how doomsday works.
If the killmail system isn't totally broken by now it was a boson.

Edit: I wrote my post before Kento answered. It's still valid but good to see that he already knew what was wrong and what not.
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Re: [FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

Post by Staberinde »

I'm not sure I agree with removing capsule losses in Nullsec - with the presence of dictors/hics/bubbles - Capsule losses are fairly reasonable to expect, I appreciate putting a bunch of 10k 0 implant losses all over the place would spam it out but if people had implants they were expecting to lose, I'd think they should be there. Especially as if someone from the FCC demonstrates it's okay to ignore capsule losses, it would encourage others to do the same.

Appreciate getting Titan dropped isn't ideal but as everyone in uni, particularly across NSC and LSC was fully aware of Pinecones and their cap heavy attitude to PVP, strange that it was a surprise :lol:

EDIT: Why are y'all beating up on a 9m Maulus pilot? Only thing should be if it's a snowflake off logi doctrine, that's it's own fault. As the fleet was headed for Null, less important for tank as there'd be no gate guns.
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Re: [FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

Post by Budda Sereda »

Kento Auffrie wrote:My choice of fit was partly based on my skills but mostly based on shield fit maulus not catching reps well at all, as they don't have slots to fit any resist modules past a DCU, so an armor fit will catch shield reps just as well, and gets an extra damp. also, i totally should have warped off as soon as analiese yellow boxed me.
Rule of thumb: your tank type should match logies rep type. If not sure, ask FC.
As you probably captured during the fleet, I've contracted Zephyr another armor fit Maulus, but that was more a desperate need to grab a ship quickly which he can sit in. And in fact, I believe he did dump Analiese and helped killing it. But when I made that choice I did mentioned: most likely you will die and logies won't save you.

Probably, posting fit I should have offered fits even for day-1 pilots... I assumed that everybody must be capable of sitting in a BLAP Caracal. At least that is a strong expectation for all PvP-interested players.
Erwin Madelung wrote: How do you want to fit a Maulus? Further it's the FCs job to control the comp. Including the snowflake fits of relatively new player.
Agree, as you see, I did mentioned that in AAR:
Budda Sereda wrote:* Nothing triggered my attention, that there are no good Shield fit for Maulus
Erwin Madelung wrote:Kento, in theory you should not have lost that Maulus. Your fit is faster than the confessor in propulsion mode.
Kento's Maulus was not in logies watch list. Unless he timely broadcasts, speed won't help: prop mode for Maulus is required to get into a position and stay at range, but not to run.
In fact, this is another learning point to me: even if pilot broadcasted to reps when he got yellow boxed, logies would need 6-8 seconds to lock it and even though Confessor can't alpha Maulus, he can do enough damage in 6 seconds to kill a small ship. Need to not take easy the fact that we have logies if we also have a paper-thin ships.
Erwin Madelung wrote:
Budda Sereda wrote: they dropped Titan and it demonstrated how doomsday works.
If the killmail system isn't totally broken by now it was a boson.
What I love in this game is that even after playing it for years there is still a learning material. Till today I never looked into titans' modules and don't know much on how they operate.
This module requires "Doomsday Operation" and "Doomsday Rapid Firing". How to name it if not a 'doomsday'?
Staberinde wrote:I'm not sure I agree with removing capsule losses in Nullsec - with the presence of dictors/hics/bubbles - Capsule losses are fairly reasonable to expect, I appreciate putting a bunch of 10k 0 implant losses all over the place would spam it out but if people had implants they were expecting to lose, I'd think they should be there. Especially as if someone from the FCC demonstrates it's okay to ignore capsule losses, it would encourage others to do the same.
That's a fair feedback. Though, what I care as FC is about saving fleet and ships. Mechanic of nul-sec assumes bubbles and loses due to that and there are nothing pilot can do to not lose a capsule if he is in the bubble. He should know though, that for risky operations he should fly combat pod (whatever he can expect to lose), not the training one.
Staberinde wrote:Appreciate getting Titan dropped isn't ideal but as everyone in uni, particularly across NSC and LSC was fully aware of Pinecones and their cap heavy attitude to PVP, strange that it was a surprise :lol:
It is a surprise because that during my 2.5 years playing EVE, the only cases I saw titans was them sitting inside of POS and creating a jump bridge. The fact that somebody dropped it for a combat to me is a surprise.
Not sure what is a LOL point, but taking it personally. In fact, I would love to join another fleet and see Titan on grid... Do better, if you can. Train unistas to know how to avoid and handle cyno drops. Including Titan one.
I've been once in a fleet when we spend 1.5 hour sitting on grid and waiting for hunters to find content so we can jump... I learned nothing during that and experienced 0 fun.
Yesterday night, we had LOTS of fights, made mistakes, and hopefully learned. The only thing which I regret is that I don't have time to call another fleet and another one until we train piloting skills and will improve.
Please, avoid lols. Thanks.
Staberinde wrote:Why are y'all beating up on a 9m Maulus pilot? Only thing should be if it's a snowflake off logi doctrine, that's it's own fault. As the fleet was headed for Null, less important for tank as there'd be no gate guns.
I'd say differently: identifying mistakes so he can learn.
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Analiese Aubernet
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Re: [FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

Post by Analiese Aubernet »

The maulus fit is fine for a shield or an armor fleet -you can’t effectively shield tank a maulus and have the mids left to actually do ewar-y things. The major mistake there would be not realizing that the confessor can and absolutely will kill you at 60-70km.

For the record, the omen was cones and I was not affiliated with it in any way.

As to my death, I just underestimated your missile range at 55km or so and was caught off guard. As you might notice, my fit doesn’t exactly have much tank.
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Re: [FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

Post by Analiese Aubernet »

Oh, I just caught the line about “trying the devoters tank”.



U wot m8


A faction fit devoted can have up to 200k (read: two hundred thousand) ehp before armor boosts, as well as an absolutely tiny sig.


That is almost always a bad idea.
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Re: [FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

Post by Xafen Katapi »

I'll have more to say, but I'd say to not remove the pods. We lost more than a billion in pod ISK. The point needs to be made more often about clean clones for PvP like this. If you aren't experienced and know what you're doing, the most you should have in a pod for PvP is something like a 1-2% cpu/powergrid implant. Certainly not 680M or 130M pods.
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Re: [FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

Post by Wokum »

Budda Sereda wrote: Some pilots did warp as they realized what's going on, but 3 left behind and did not realize what's going on and were killed.

(02:44:58) 6E-578
Caracal -13.92m
Caracal -14.03m
Caracal -37.02m

Metti and Micah received extra SRP from FC for doing stupid mistakes. What you could do to stay alive is to warp to FC. You would not land on the point I warped the whole fleet, but you would run out of danger.
Wokum: I'm sorry, you have enough experience to realize what's going on and run. Yup, my fault for not warping the fleet too.
I knew what was going on--we were left on the gate and had no idea where the fleet was because the destination wasn't called with the "fleet warp". At first I aligned to a celestial and waited to find out where the FC had warped to. Then the Leshak landed (or was already there?) and Metti called that he had been aggressed. There were 6 or 7 of us stranded on the gate and with the Leshak taking gate guns I was sure we'd get the call to blap him so I had him locked up and was ready to fire. Then Matti went down and the Leshak started on Micah and by now a few of us on the gate had warped off. We got the command to warp to FC but I was still sure we'd get the command to blap the Leshak once we figured out what was happening. By the time I realized we were going to abandon our fleetmates another Leshak had landed and I got pointed myself.

Could the fleet take 2 Leshaks that were taking gate guns? They have a big tank so we might have got welped. My bad for thinking ahead of the FC and not just following instructions.
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Re: [FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

Post by Budda Sereda »

Analiese Aubernet wrote:The major mistake there would be not realizing that the confessor can and absolutely will kill you at 60-70km.
Agree. Thanks for lesson, believe me it is learned. Next time I won't consider safe in BM even with logies. In fact, Maulus pilots should react on the situation and without ask from FC should immediately range-damp whatever lands on a grid. Please do ALSO call FC on your actions so FC won't call fleet to dock-up and you will stay due to a weapon timer.[/quote]

For the record, the omen was cones and I was not affiliated with it in any way.
Analiese Aubernet wrote:As to my death, I just underestimated your missile range at 55km or so and was caught off guard. As you might notice, my fit doesn’t exactly have much tank.
And I did realize too late I had furies loaded. So when I loaded faction it made the difference.
Man, let me admit it: you caused lots of pain yesterday. And I hate to admit the fact that 1 fessor was able to screw a fleet of 10 cruisers. Trust me, it was a new experience for me. I did have the plan, it did not work out well in the beginning... gradually it did work out as it should. Fessor just can't outrange Caracals for a long time and stay alive, the margin of making mistake is too thing.
In fact, I was surprised to see you followed us into null. Did you switch to a combat pod?
Anyway, thanks for content.

BTW: I did see you messaged me, but just did not have time to respond before you abandoned the chat. Please keep brining content. But be mindful, that if I fly the NoP my risk tolerance will be lower than usual.
Analiese Aubernet wrote:Oh, I just caught the line about “trying the devoters tank”.
U wot m8
A faction fit devoted can have up to 200k (read: two hundred thousand) ehp before armor boosts, as well as an absolutely tiny sig.
That is almost always a bad idea.
Not sure what "U wot m8" means..?

I should have put "trying the devoters tank" in quotes. I knew it was a bait, but being able to engage the bait and survive is part of learning and skill to train. It is fun to laugh in local at people who drop a Titan and miss killing you, right?
Ok, this time they did laugh, unless I try, I won't even laugh myself and accept I'm a loser.

Never not take a bait. Just have a plan.
I'll have more to say, but I'd say to not remove the pods. We lost more than a billion in pod ISK. The point needs to be made more often about clean clones for PvP like this. If you aren't experienced and know what you're doing, the most you should have in a pod for PvP is something like a 1-2% cpu/powergrid implant. Certainly not 680M or 130M pods.
I guess I should agree.
Wokum wrote:I knew what was going on--we were left on the gate and had no idea where the fleet was because the destination wasn't called with the "fleet warp". At first I aligned to a celestial and waited to find out where the FC had warped to. Then the Leshak landed (or was already there?) and Metti called that he had been aggressed. There were 6 or 7 of us stranded on the gate and with the Leshak taking gate guns I was sure we'd get the call to blap him so I had him locked up and was ready to fire. Then Matti went down and the Leshak started on Micah and by now a few of us on the gate had warped off. We got the command to warp to FC but I was still sure we'd get the command to blap the Leshak once we figured out what was happening. By the time I realized we were going to abandon our fleetmates another Leshak had landed and I got pointed myself.

Could the fleet take 2 Leshaks that were taking gate guns? They have a big tank so we might have got welped. My bad for thinking ahead of the FC and not just following instructions.
Let me admit it again, it was my mistake to not fleet-warp. I blame only myself that I lost 3 ships.
Yet, you flew with me often, you know my style and preferences. I would expect that the moment you hear "fleet take this warp" command and see no result you should have called: "Hey Budda, something went wrong".
The best action in this circumstance (as I believe Xafen advised during the fleet) is to warp to FC. You will take the warp pretty much immediately and land somewhere in space on the way towards the destination FC called for.
We were in nul, there are no gate guns. And even with that, they do have a solid tank: we can't take them without logies. Even with 3 logies we could probably barely hold them, but we had only 1.

Ok, let's keep learning!
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Re: [FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

Post by Analiese Aubernet »

The maulus was triple-range damping me. It just doesn't matter if I'm in sharpshooter mode.
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Re: [FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

Post by Decklin Quark Reiger »

So, a couple of learning points, I guess:

- MHC is null sec so there are no gate guns to help you kill the Leshaks.
- Leshaks are bonused to remote reps as well as damage, and their gun only takes one slot. So they are their own logi.
- sniper confessors are one of the best long range frigate killers there are, but are very fragile. You can spiral in, but most pilots will take damage as you go, assuming the confessor is smart and burning away from you.
- Pinecones do not give good fights. Count Scary likes to play with his shiny expensive toys, so just expect that, and either fight elsewhere, or find a clever way to trap him and out-escalate pinecones. Don't just feed free kills.
- don't sit still in a skirmishing doctrine long enough to get caught by battleships.
- Heavy Interdiction Cruisers (Hictors) not only generate a mobile bubble around themselves, they also can script that module to be a long (infinite strength) warp disruptor, or a long warp scrambler which turns off your MWD.
- a Hictor's main job is to tackle large powerful things, including capitals, and then not die. Don't expect to be able to kill it with 6-7 Caracals. There's genuinely no reason to engage it.
- forming a fleet in one system, with logi and support together works a lot better than trying to get the fleet together from 9 hostile systems apart.
- a dictor's job in a Caracal fleet is to help you get away from stuff chasing you. You could use that to prevent the Leshaks from chasing you. Well, except that maybe your Dictor want with the fleet at the time?
- shield tanked dictors work much better in a shield fleet than armour ones.
- a Hyena would be very useful if possible.
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Jackson Millenius
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Re: [FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

Post by Jackson Millenius »

I was in the fleet. My losses were out of my control, (dat leshak, dat titan dd). Thank you guys for posting all the feedback.
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Budda Sereda
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Re: [FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

Post by Budda Sereda »

Thanks Decklin. I agree that possibilities to kill HIC are really low, but how can we learn if we don't try? Pilot can make a mistake, etc. Yeah, I admit I don't know much local, now I know a bit better. Hope this helped participant to learn something.

Again, the main goal of the fleet was to help NSC start flying in Syndicate. Getting the whole fleet in one location is an absolutely reasonable thing. Unfortunately, NSC did not have enough Caracals and Osprey on contract so I could just pod travel there...

BTW, a good tactic we could exploit was to boosh one of Leshaks and kill one of them while 2nd is 100km off. They would mostlikely dropped cyno, but if they paniked and drop 2 cynos reinforcements will go to the wrong place and we had a chance to kill one BS. Maybe, depending on the fit and amount of DPS we had.
Jackson Millenius wrote:I was in the fleet. My losses were out of my control, (dat leshak, dat titan dd). Thank you guys for posting all the feedback.
I learned from loses, hope you did too.

BTW, here is what I think pilot could do in the situation with Leshak is:
* OH your MWD and turn it on (in exactly this sequence)
* OH your Invulnerability Fields and turn them on (the same sequence, that would give you extra 20% EHP).
You were already quite far from the gate, Caracal is much quicker than Leshak, and you had some tank to survive until you pull enough range to warp. Unless Leshak decloaked 10km from you and scram/webbed you, you should be able to survive.
Hope this helps.
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Analiese Aubernet
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Re: [FLEET] BLAP Caracals: were you ever killed by Titan?

Post by Analiese Aubernet »

“I agree that possibilities to kill HIC are really low, but how can we learn if we don't try?”

There is virtually no possibility in which you manage to kill the HIC pilot. A typical full tank devoter has 167k ehp before any armor boosts, say, with thermal as its weakest resist at 85%. Without regarding application issues, which there will be as Devoters are very small sig-wise for a cruiser, a MAX SKILL RLML caracal does 405 dps using Inferno fury for 40 seconds before it has to reload.

The formula to calculate the EHP of a given buffer is Raw HP / (1 - Resist). Using this formula, a devoter has 23k armor / (1 - .85) = 153,333 armor who against thermal damage.

You had 8 caracals on grid that died to the Titan DD. Assuming that all of there caracals were perfectly skilled pilots (which they were not), your fleet would do 8x405 = 3,240 dps for 40 seconds, before going on reload. This is a grand total of 129k raw damage against an ehp of 153k.

I cannot emphasize enough that this is assuming maximum skills and perfect application, into the Devoters lowest resist. In reality, with T1 caracals on grid and application issues, it would likely take you AT LEAST two clips of rapid lights from all of your caracals to burn through the armor buffer of the devoter.

And, as you learned the hard way, there isn’t such a thing as a solo HIC in nullsec. Particularly when it belongs to a group that is well known to be cap happy, and the dominant force in the region.


As far as your exit strategy, I would love to hear what your plan was to get away from a ship that can create a mobile warp disruption field almost 35km in diameter.
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