[FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

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Eadrom Vintarus

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Retired Director
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Post 2018.06.19 04:07

[FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

Fleet details: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 6&t=110077

First off, I would like to extend a tremendous thank you to all of our friends that came out from other corps to get some content with us, Hidden Flame and The Initiative especially. Hidden Flame helped with a couple key roles in the fleet; it was great to have their experience with us and and seeing INIT spike into system was a great moment! There were some others present as well, either to get content or help us and thanks for ya'll coming out as well. =) I would also like to thank all the Uni students and staff that came out and flew with me today, helped with logistics to prep for the fighting, and/or simply spread the word about the dank memes posted in the fleet post and so helped raise awareness for the fleet.

If you are w/ E-UNI and lost a ship, you can request an SRP payment for your qualifying loss via the following form. Be sure to select the NSC for which campus in the final question so you can receive any enhanced SRP payout for qualified losses.
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The fighting was pretty straightforward. We took a travel fleet down from Stacmon to bring in pilots from Solitude and the high/low sec based campuses. That trip was blissfully uneventful.

The fighting in T22 started with a cyno. We managed to pop their cyno corvette, leading a few of them on station and the rest to bounce into the sun. We didn't stick around on station where they cyno'ed in because they had a couple logi on grid and could have just docked up after killing our boosher.

Hostile forces finished spiking into T22 and we regrouped on a tactical on the tatara and watched the SC and Arson fleets warp in to the structure at what looked like 0km (at least the nightmares did, not positive about the cerb fleet). The SC fleet had a HIC with a bubble up shortly after landing. We considered slowboating a tethered cdessie over and boosh them a piece of them away, but they pulled range. We started to look at taking a piece of Arson's cerb fleet when the system pop spiked again. You could hear the discouragement in the voices of the pilots reporting the spike...

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BUT THEN

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Turns out it was INIT forces moving in to assist! We had no idea they were going to show up. Their presence was just as much a surprise as the Arson cerb fleet was. INIT landed a very sweet bombing run on Arson's cerb fleet, wiping them out. The next little while of fighting was watching INIT show us how to perform a snatch fleet and IVY & Friends looking for good places to warp in and take advantage of the fighting between INIT and SC.

SC decided to bail after a bit and headed off towards home, presumably. We chased after them, hoping to pick off stragglers. There was a brawl on the PC9 gate in JH-. We killed some of their tackle. Someone mentioned an INIT bubble went wrong and they lost a good number of their ships. Our own boosher had died a little earlier in T22 and with INIT's booshers gone, the snatch tactic was off the table and we didn't have enough dps to break their logi, so my fleet disengaged to a tactical on the gate.

The remaining INIT forces left grid. SC fleet jumped through to PC9 and headed back into the pocket, presumably to re-reinforce the tatara. We headed after them. We still had a combat prober or two and our tacticals so figured we would harass them best we could. Couple of bubbles later, we were all back on grid w/ the tatara, this time just us and SC.

We played some ping/tacticals games while they reffed the tatara again and then they warped off. We popped a Pinecone breacher and then we followed behind them to the PC9 gate in T22. We had some honorable third parties there trying out a few bombers (<3 Nomad). Jumping into PC9, they had a HIC that bubbled the gate and were probably looking to pick some of us off if we engaged. They managed to scram a few people but most of us held cloak and / or crashed the gate back into T22 and warp off.

Thus ends this tale of glorious fighting. GF to SC/Arson and big thanks to INIT. and Hidden Flame for coming out!

What went well:
* There was enough broadcast notice about the timers that a fleet could be coordinated. So we had time to get stuff rapidly shipped down (thank you JF pilot <333).
* Offers of content went out to a bunch of friends and some of them showed up for the fun!
* Lots of advice was given to us; big thanks to all the IVY Alumni that helped answer questions and allow us to be better prepared
* Analiese was extremely helpful in finding stuff for us to shoot in the furballs we got into, in advising on tactics, on providing warpins and other valuable contributions towards FC'ing the fleet. He did so without talking over me as well as without making me feel like he was taking over on FC'ing. He performed 2FC awesomely and I am personally very thankful he was there to help! I am confident we would not have performed near as well as we did without him helping to FC.
* I felt less overwhelmed than usual on fights with regards to information processing as people called out events happening on the battlefield. I think I can attribute a large part of that to being more comfortable fighting on home turf. I didn't really have to dedicate a lot of mental cycles to the geography of the three systems so I was able to pay better attention to the fights and information coming in.
* We had great turn out for a Tuesday early evening USTZ!

What could have gone better:
* I could have had reships posted before the travel fleet; that would have given more time to answer questions and helped slow the pace down on the travel fleet a bit
* More cdessies. We only had one show up on our side (thank you Talman!) so even if we wanted to try snatching by ourselves, it would have been very difficult to pull off w/ just one, very likely very short lived, cdessie. We had a number of people that could have reshipped into them, but I only brought punisher and inquisitor hulls. Next time I'm FC'ing a fleet and doing my own reshipping setup, I should probably include the critical to our success ships as well as mainline dps/logi.
* It was very difficult to try and find targets throughout much of the fighting between the various fleets. This was primarily because a portion of the fleet was non-blue INIT as well as most of the hostile fleet was stuff we wouldn't be able to take down ourselves. I realized after the fighting that I could have just sorted my PVP overview by Alliance and been able to have a much easier time finding targets.
* I didn't make use of the structure's defenses and just let Greagan command it as he felt best. There were a few times where I could have used the structure's tackle to help pin down a straggler.

I would love for anyone else to post their experiences, suggestions for improvements, what they saw go well, as well as input from any third party groups (like Nomad's).

Thank you again to everyone that came out! Fly courageously! = )

Roam members (42)
SPOILER WARNING!
Alexander Oromov - Punisher
Analiese Aubernet - Retribution
Athena Firefly - Retribution
Atomsk Agittain - Punisher
Batil Shabh - Punisher
Budda Sereda - Nemesis, Punisher
Calder Ormand - Punisher
Coaxster - Raptor
Cryptic Sharvas - Retribution
Dal Cais - Punisher, Atron
Devoros Vyndiver - Punisher
Drebin 679
Eadrom Vintarus - Retribution
Earl Reneshan - Griffin
Fergus Echerie - Punisher
Flack Keikira - Inquisitor
Ged Sinak - Punisher
Gemma Solett - Confessor
Imad Gratia - Enyo
John Jones - Punisher
Jon Musk
Jorj Onzo - Retribution
Kontxesi Buchanan - Ferox
Marn Vermuldir - Malediction
Metti ar Virksen - Punisher
Ramong Pares - Retribution
Reed Gryphon
Reembody - Retribution
Reichat Oughto
Rohan Amadeus - Retribution
SpankUVRYMuch
Staberinde - Scorpion
Talman Drak - Magus, Punisher
Taqukaq Agayar - Hyena
Vladimir Antonovich - Punisher
Vors Voorhorian - Retribution
Williamine - Retribution
Xafen Katapi - Retribution
Xavian Brightly - Punisher
Zkadon Estemaire - Punisher
Zoltan Irvam
lobevaser


Kills and Losses

(00:04:09) T22-QI
Velator +1.22m

(00:10:47) T22-QI
Punisher -11m

(00:20:31) T22-QI
Nemesis -45.99m
Nightmare +703.17m
Capsule +0.01m

(00:29:18) JH-M2W
Nightmare +713.18m
Magus -108.51m
Stiletto +48.57m
Punisher -8.34m
Punisher -5.01m
Stiletto +43.27m
Capsule -0.01m
Hyena -55.9m
Velator +1.23m
Capsule +0.01m

(00:45:13) T22-QI
Vigil +11.64m
Ferox -75.22m
Punisher -13.03m
Punisher -10.5m

(00:57:35) T22-QI
Inquisitor -4.66m
Punisher -18.32m

(01:12:55) T22-QI, PC9-AY
Breacher +20.19m
Griffin -1.65m
Capsule -0.01m
Punisher -8.12m
Retribution -58.79m
Retribution -61.57m
Retribution -57.87m
Atron -3.48m
Capsule -0.01m

Stats
ISK Destroyed: 1,542,489,065.19
ISK Lost: 547,980,130.39
ISK Delta: 994,508,934.8
Efficiency: 73.787%

Shadow Cartel posted on r/eve about the fight if anyone wants their PoV and what looks like a good combined battle report:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/8 ... _fleet_is/
https://br.inyour.space/?s=3285,3287,32 ... 10&t=rwfaf

INIT's FC posted there as well with some corrects from their end:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/8 ... s/e0wtjvf/
\o/ Retired \o/ Director of Special Projects - NSC, LSC, Solitude Campuses, and the Fleet Command Course
Feeling lost or overwhelmed? Request an E-UNI Mentor today!

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Fergus Echerie

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Campus Manager
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Post 2018.06.19 06:00

Re: [FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

Good fun and worth the late night/early morning.

Personally had no idea what booshing was until this fleet, was pretty impressive seeing the Init guys land, launch then seeming pop up the other side of the Shadow Cartel bubble.

Also learnt a lot about scout/tackle just by listening and watching.

And the Tatara lived to fight another day so all in well worth the amout of caffeine i'll need to function today.
Solitude Campus Manager


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Drebin 679

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Coordinator

Post 2018.06.19 07:15

Re: [FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

Eadrom Vintarus wrote: Someone mentioned an INIT bubble went wrong and they lost a good number of their ships.


By the time we made it to JH-, INIT alongside some of us attempted to get on a Nightmare under the expectation that it'd get booshed away, but Brisc Rubal of INIT left his prop mod on before the boosh, so he only booshed himself, according to a comment of his on Reddit. It was definitely awkward hitting a Nightmare and having nothing happen.


Eadrom Vintarus wrote:https://br.inyour.space/?s=3285,3287,3286&b=8133120,8133060,8133060&e=90,210,210&t=rwfaf


As noted by Brisc on the Init FC comment chain, this isn't the best bloc grouping there could be. Alongside Arson Industries, Flamethrowers United seem to be allied with Shadow Cartel, since SC is involved in many of their kills. Phage and Terror only attacked us, and don't seem to have any engagements with or against SC as of late, but I'm not sure if they're sided with SC or just third partying, so I think it's best to label them as independent. I also unchecked the "Ignore insignificant corps/alliances" box, so more information is presented.

https://br.inyour.space/?s=3285,3287,32 ... rucsLj&o=1

For feedback, there were times where we were within engagement range of the SC fleet, but no target was called out. You already noted that this was due to many INIT members not being blue, and is something that will probably be made more clear in the future.

And I guess I should put out for the record that someone did want a recording of comms when our sole remaining dictor nearly bubbled 3 SC Nightmares as they left Mordor, but didn't know how to quickly untether to do it.

Thanks for the fleet!
Assistant Incursion Coordinator, Wiki Curator

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Ramong Pares

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Post 2018.06.19 08:37

Re: [FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

Great fleet and big thanks to The Graduates, The Initiative and Hidden Flames!

Seeing those booshes and bomings done by The Initiative was awesome. To bad we couldn't directly deal with the Nightmare fleet.
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Zeerse Solaris

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Post 2018.06.19 11:13

Re: [FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

Sounds interesting. The Graduates are one of the few +10s to Uni (because who do you think they graduated from?) and are able to bring in the rest of INIT if theres interest in the content, I wouldn't be surprised if they held some big things in reserve in case of escalation.

Quite a lot of learning to be had it looks like, shame it was USTZ :)
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E-uni Mentor: Apply to be a mentor
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Cryptic Sharvas

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Post 2018.06.19 13:45

Re: [FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

With the Titan known as Friendship, any structure can be saved.

I'd like to thank Init for helping to save this structure.

Also it would seem that looking at the Hi and Bye forums that this also lead a bit of a recruiting drive for them.

It is nice to see what skilled pilots can do.

I would like to know what skills I would need to take part in learning class from Init on how to run a fleet like that.
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Zeerse Solaris

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Post 2018.06.19 15:25

Re: [FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

Cryptic Sharvas wrote:
I would like to know what skills I would need to take part in learning class from Init on how to run a fleet like that.


I haven't seen it advertised for a while but they used to run a joint fleet once a week on Friday evenings USTZ. As to the snatch fleets, I've been on some in an alt, the main skills are out of game, i.e. discipline and listening to the FC/Jump Dessie. Pando is great at running them in a smaller gang, maybe with an enquiry they would take some unistas along.
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E-uni Mentor: Apply to be a mentor
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Raido Kudonen

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Post 2018.06.19 15:33

Re: [FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

Zeerse Solaris wrote:I haven't seen it advertised for a while but they used to run a joint fleet once a week on Friday evenings USTZ. As to the snatch fleets, I've been on some in an alt, the main skills are out of game, i.e. discipline and listening to the FC/Jump Dessie. Pando is great at running them in a smaller gang, maybe with an enquiry they would take some unistas along.


I ran the joint fleets on Mondays USTZ, not on Fridays. We stopped advertising them to the Uni because we weren't getting many people to show up from the Uni, certain Uni FCs liked to schedule events across from that time and weren't interested in working with us on any kind of joint content, and because we had some IT changes that made it suddenly difficult to create temporary links for people outside the alliance to join our comms. If folks are interested in those now, I'd be interested in restarting that program.

(I believe HIFL's Yarrfleets are the ones that happen on Friday nights.)

---

On-topic, Eadrom and others did really great work planning how the Uni fleet would engage this timer, and it looks like this planning proved educational and worked out well for everybody. Nice work!
"What is good in life, Raido?"
"To crush your enemies. To see them bubbled before you, and to hear the lamentations of their carebears."

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Tal Tracyn

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Post 2018.06.19 21:04

Re: [FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

awesome i'm glad the structures were saved :D
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Nomad Udan

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Post 2018.06.19 21:21

Re: [FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

Hello NSC, first off thanks for the great fun. Next off to clear this part up:
Drebin 679 wrote: Phage and Terror only attacked us, and don't seem to have any engagements with or against SC as of late, but I'm not sure if they're sided with SC or just third partying, so I think it's best to label them as independent. I also unchecked the "Ignore insignificant corps/alliances" box, so more information is presented.

Hello again, I am Captain Jack Rackham from Total Mayhem. of Phage and Terror, we are not allied with SC we were simply there to 3rd party and due to some technical difficulties we only happened to catch a couple Unistas on the gate.

Even though we were mostly spectating (waiting for the perfect moment to drop some bombs, and skipping over some that we deemed inappropriate) it was still quite the enjoyable event. Like I said earlier on Alumni Slack, the only real gripes I saw (that I can remember) was when the retri fleet first warped in to t22 most warped to a ping (I assume with FC) I think it was about 100-200 off the tatara while the rest of the fleet warped to 0 on it and then burned up. With a number of neuts in the system and no way to know who is friend or foe that could have gone bad (some of use were sitting about 40km off your retri fleet, this was the first bomb we deemed inappropriate to launch), but not a huge problem. And the other problem we saw was as the fight was winding down, there were a lot of people sitting at 0 on the gate (where we then dropped a bomb or two on you), I would have either jumped through, been at some distance off the gate or at a ping but bunched up on the gate like that was too tempting not to bomb you (sorry).

Also props to whoever that Thrasher pilot was who was out salvaging in T22 after the fight and was paying enough attention that he warped off when our bombers decloaked.

10/10 would third party again
"Wherever the enemy wants to fight, we will follow him to the ends of the Earth. We'll adapt, we'll train, we'll advise, we'll mentor, and we'll fight, and we'll fight well." -Gen. James Mattis
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2018.06.19 23:08

Re: [FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

I raised this question during the fleet, but did not really get any good answer, so would like to hear from a wider audience.

If you're flying a bomber, you strategy should be:
1. Get into a position
2. Align out
3. Decloak, lock target(s), start shooting
4. See for yellow boxes in overview or in space
5. Warp away as soon as somebody started targeting you.

This is easy to execute when you fight a small gang. Yesterday that did not work because overview did not contain every opponent and space was really clattered and you can't really see if you are yellow boxed.

What is the tactic for bomber in big fights?

Please share your thoughts. Thanks!
Maybe, in big fights they should just bomb and run?
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Nomad Udan

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Post 2018.06.19 23:35

Re: [FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

Budda Sereda wrote:I raised this question during the fleet, but did not really get any good answer, so would like to hear from a wider audience.

If you're flying a bomber, you strategy should be:
1. Get into a position
2. Align out
3. Decloak, lock target(s), start shooting
4. See for yellow boxes in overview or in space
5. Warp away as soon as somebody started targeting you.

This is easy to execute when you fight a small gang. Yesterday that did not work because overview did not contain every opponent and space was really clattered and you can't really see if you are yellow boxed.

What is the tactic for bomber in big fights?

Please share your thoughts. Thanks!
Maybe, in big fights they should just bomb and run?


My opinion would be to have your overview stretched the height of the screen (if you're planning on having a big fight), have the active tab only showing ships and only ships that aren't blue, green, or purple. that way you can see as many as possible. As for the aligning out, decloak, launch, etc. thing this is fine as long as you aren't planning on using the bomber's bombs.
"Wherever the enemy wants to fight, we will follow him to the ends of the Earth. We'll adapt, we'll train, we'll advise, we'll mentor, and we'll fight, and we'll fight well." -Gen. James Mattis
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Analiese Aubernet

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Post 2018.06.20 03:57

Re: [FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

If you're a bomber in big fights, you're aligning, dropping cloak and bomb, then warping off as fast as possible.
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Budda Sereda

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Post 2018.06.20 14:25

Re: [FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

Bombs were not planned (at least on my side), my use case is about regular dps-ing.

Overview height was not enough to capture things on grid.

So far I feel like DPS bombers are probably bad idea for big fights? Tbh, that does not sound right.
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Rohan Amadeus

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Post 2018.06.20 16:52

Re: [FLEET] NSC Charge of the Two Towers

This was quite a bit of fun and it was cool to see people come together to help defend and be a part of it all.

Bombs were not planned (at least on my side), my use case is about regular dps-ing.

Overview height was not enough to capture things on grid.

So far I feel like DPS bombers are probably bad idea for big fights? Tbh, that does not sound right.


When you're a single bomber, or torp frigate (thanks for the name space warfare development), you won't be all that effective unless you're just trying to whore in on stuff. Those nightmares have a pretty long range so the best thing you can do is align out, decloak, fire a volley, warp out.

The problem that you had was that you were pointed by someone. If you sorted your overview by using distance, you would have seen someone approaching you and could have warped out in time because the person yellowboxing and about to point you is headed straight for you. So your overview does not need to contain EVERY enemy to see who's yellowboxing you - just those that are about to point you. No amount of overview will save you if you don't look at who's nearest you - and considering you were quite alone with the stiletto that pointed you - that stiletto should have been at the very top of your list if you sorted it by distance for a good long while.
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