[NANO FLEET] Small Gang Thursday - Kitey Cruisers

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Budda Sereda
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[NANO FLEET] Small Gang Thursday - Kitey Cruisers

Post by Budda Sereda »

I did have quite a few very good fleets in the past. Somehow, quite a few fleets during last few months were not really good: the best I can say about the majority of BCs fleets is that they were 'just ok'. One of the reasons is I did not execute them properly, another chosen doctrines were not optimal.

But this time I'm sure I've restored my credit of trust from pilots: fleet barely finished and I already got quite a bit of positive feedback from participants in the fleet announcement topic as well as in slack (https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 6&t=109123). Thanks guys, sometimes it is very important to feel support!

So, we went out to Black Rise in a self-rep armor cruisers, primarily Omens, had quite a bit of support in form of ewar and 1 self-rep logy.
Roam members (17)
Spoiler
Aeryn Tzun - Griffin, Rupture
Andrew Lenard - Atron
Breenie Shi - Stiletto
Budda Sereda - Omen
Conci Furiram - Malediction
Gemma Solett - Magus
Harai Rex - Malediction
I Skip Legday - Atron, Caracal
Mauritun - Omen
Mols Halleck
Satoshi Tomeii - Caracal, Condor, Kestrel
Sone Eto - Maulus
Space Warfare Development - Nemesis
Venator Skarsgard - Kestrel
Wokum - Omen
Xafen Katapi - Coercer
Z0X Ambrye - Keres
I got 5 ceptor pilots (WOW!!!), gut asked few to reship, so left with just 3 (Harai, Conci, and Breenie) + 1 Keres (Z0x) + Gemma switched into Magus.
We also get 1 self-rep logy. I knew that we should be kiting, but low-sec often assumes fighting on gates and we are not really super-pilots (JUST YET!) so, with some experience gained training for Anger Games tournament, I've come up with MWD Exequror fit. Apparently, with Mols help it made fleet really successful. Though, we had very few DDs in the very beginning, barely 3-4 cruisers.

Interesting comment in fleet:
Wokum > 9,445 ehp on an Omen makes me nervous :D
Yet, sorry for the spoiler: he did survive even though was tackled! Good job Wokum!!!

We started with my speech about manual piloting which we are going to practice, the way how I'm usually whelp fleets, the fact that I like engaging stronger forces and try to come out of those engagements alive.

We just undocked when scouts reported something flashy (don't remember exactly what was that) jumping into Uphallant from Dastryns.

While we were hunting it, I confirmed that Omen can apply really well at LOOOONG range to the frigate which is MWDing away on the straight line:

(02:37:40) Iges
Slasher +5.64m

And... somebody need to learn low-sec gate mechanic:
Griffin -0.64m
:)
But kudos to Aeryn for quick reshipping.

Our flashy friend was not a member of Salty so even there were people in local I called to engage. We quickly got more people landing on grid, I expected us to be more mobile and tried to break things, but it did not happen. At some point, I've made a mistake in piloting and was caught. I've tried to escape, but was neuted, webbed, scrammed... and killed. Same as quite a few of us. I called to scatter a bit later than I should:

(02:48:10) Ostingele
Griffin -0.64m
Coercer -11.05m
Omen -40.64m
Kestrel -7.75m
Caracal -27.83m
Aeryn: another thing with Griffin - you should stay at 50-70km from the engagement and try to jam people from distance. If anything comes close to you (including drones) you should warp out.

While we were reshipping, Z0X landed on a Cynabal's killmail :)
Cynabal +197.97m

And a bit later, Andrew - on Siren :)
Siren I +7.12m

In Agoze, we've met a flashy Apocalypse. I was thinking if we should engage him or not. I was afraid, we won't really have DPS to break him, at the same time, god knows how is he fixed, plust we are kiters... why not to practice? Maybe he will call for smaller friends to tackle us so we can get few kills?
That's exactly what happened :) First, though, he got a Raven. But quite shortly they followed up with a Stork and, I believe, Magus.

It was a super interesting fight: we were orbiting (hopefully manually?) Apoc, keeping him tackled and agressing us, and at the same time focusing on Magus and Stork warping in and out. For someone, calling target could look chaotic, but I hope my actions had some logic.
We did lose few pilots, but at some point where able to secure Stork. I guess after another piloting mistake we lost 1 more cruiser, Apoc was still tanking, our logy was pushed out of the grid, I took quite a bit of damage and without having a designated 2IC called fleet to scatter.

Quite a few loses, but considering we fought 2 BS and 2 CDs, quite a good result:

(03:08:49) Ostingele, Agoze
Griffin -0.63m
Atron -6.6m
Stork +126.61m
Condor -9.51m
Maulus -2.81m
Kestrel -7.19m
Omen -39.69m

Funny enough, later these 2 folks were killed by 3rd party, and I am even reported as landing a killing blow. I assume those guys engaged non flashy folks on gate, and the killing blow to Apoc came from the gate guns. Anyway, I take the credit: :)

(03:28:08) Agoze
Raven +244.51m
Apocalypse +253.48m

Going through Black Rise we got quite a few easier solo targets. Scouts with vanguard did a perfect job and we got few easy kills:

(03:35:25) Vey
Caracal Navy Issue +125.86m
Jaguar +55.75m

(04:05:25) Hikkoken
Gila +371.95m

(04:15:36) Pynekastoh
Caracal Navy Issue +141.38m

In Rakapas we spotted a flashy Prophecy landing on a gate, we got together and engaged but it got reinforcements. I was trying to kite and secure kills, but DPS was not enough, we got some loses, so I called fleet to align out and warped us away.

(04:29:29) Pynekastoh
Atron -8.56m
Omen -39.27m
Prophecies tried to follow us, but we successfully run away.

We had some content in Nisuwa, but after small skirmish we did not get kills, neither lost anything. In Tama scouts reported Gnosis and Exequror camping HS exit.

I'm quite called vanguard to warp at range, bait, and pull Gnosis and Exec from the gate. We implemented that perfectly and killed both: HURRAY!
(04:50:15) Tama
Exequror +19.34m
Gnosis +84.64m

I wanted to camp the gate for a bit, but scouts reported Cyclon baiting in plex...

You guys know my MOTO: never not take a bait. Same as in a fight with Apoc an hour ago, we pointed Cyclone and were trying to kill tackles. At some point I made another mistake, was caught by Cyclone, but with Mols help was able to survive, pull the range and disengage. This reduced our already quite low DPS and Cyclone stabilized...
Our opponents were quite good we were staying alive, but could not grab any of them. At that moment, our logy was pushed out of grid again, I run out of cap boosters and nanite paste, was super tired and called it a night. We aligned out and warped, Wokum was tackled, but was able to escape! Good job again!

Later we realized that Hyperion (who landed at some point and spooked the Cyclone) and Tristan was killed :)
(04:59:17) Tama
Kestrel -13.22m
Nemesis -169.75m
Stiletto -37.5m
Capsule -0.01m
Caracal -30.03m
Tristan +5.46m
Hyperion +309.8m

The way back home was quite and we spent time appraizing ourselves :)

Stats
ISK Destroyed: 1,949,499,344.37
ISK Lost: 453,325,331
ISK Delta: 1,496,174,013.37
Efficiency: 81.134%

Overall evaluation
  • (Positive stuff)
    * LOTS OF FUN, and really new experience!
    * Lost of Risk and high reward!
    * Decent turn-around as for Thursday
    * Kudos to Gemma for keeping CD alive!

    (Negative stuff)
    * Not enough DPS, for the next fleet I would call a nano-Oracle, Tornado, or at least Naga or Talos.
    * Was really hard to FC and manual control my ship
    * Not enough communication from players. I would love EWar pilots call their jamms, DDs taking initiative picking up targets, tackles pilots during engagement call to hunt targets of opportunities (though get FCs confirmation in advance you can commit).
Great fleet, thanks everybody for making it great!

P.S. Next nano fleet is literally tomorrow: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 6&t=109258. Get the same ships, bring new, in particular I would need 1 maybe 2 (not more!) Attack BCs.

P.P.S. Please fill-in the FCC feedback form and let me know what I could do better:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... rm?c=0&w=1
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Mauritun
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Re: [NANO FLEET] Small Gang Thursday - Kitey Cruisers

Post by Mauritun »

I had a great time Budda and I definitely learned a few things.

My first Omen loss was because my brain went on autopilot; I got too close and was webbed- this was my first time flying in a kitey cruiser. Things went really well after I reshipped .... until:

(04:29:29) Pynekastoh
Omen -39.27m :oops:

My first ever loss of internet while in space. I was bagged while offline and sitting on the gate because my timer was still up. All in all some great learning experiences and had a blast to boot. Thanks all for the good times.
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Mols Halleck
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Re: [NANO FLEET] Small Gang Thursday - Kitey Cruisers

Post by Mols Halleck »

Really cool fleet, I feel like 2 logies would have been better but we would have lost some dps so it's a tough call.
Your comment about not enough dps prompted me to try and make a Rail Talos fit, if I feel it works I may fly it next time if you need the dps and we already have logi.
Really looking forward for the next one!
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Budda Sereda
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Re: [NANO FLEET] Small Gang Thursday - Kitey Cruisers

Post by Budda Sereda »

Mols Halleck wrote:Really cool fleet, I feel like 2 logies would have been better but we would have lost some dps so it's a tough call.
Your comment about not enough dps prompted me to try and make a Rail Talos fit, if I feel it works I may fly it next time if you need the dps and we already have logi.
Really looking forward for the next one!
I feel like with our current piloting skills we would benefit more from having a logy. I would dream that in future we will be able to go with no logy, but even in elite-pvpers have a solo Scimitar joining the gang, that helps to survive tremendously.

So have Talos ready, but if you will be flexible and getting logy if needed it would be great.

BTW, why Talos? Would you mind to share the fit?
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Glasi Vookto
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Re: [NANO FLEET] Small Gang Thursday - Kitey Cruisers

Post by Glasi Vookto »

Rail Talos is bad for small gang, unless you're only shooting BCs and above. If you like unconventional fits, you can try out a blaster kiting Naga, works surprisingly well; otherwise pulse Oracle is still king of ABCs when it comes to small gang dps.

If you feel you need more punch in your fleets, I would recommend you look into t1 BCs too. Brutix, Cane, Harbi, Drake they all pack a good punch and are relatively cheap to fly (~40M after insurance). The added benefit of having one or two of those in your gang is that you can field sweet skirmish links which will greatly improve your whole gang's efficiency.
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Budda Sereda
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Re: [NANO FLEET] Small Gang Thursday - Kitey Cruisers

Post by Budda Sereda »

Glasi Vookto wrote:Rail Talos is bad for small gang, unless you're only shooting BCs and above. If you like unconventional fits, you can try out a blaster kiting Naga, works surprisingly well; otherwise pulse Oracle is still king of ABCs when it comes to small gang dps.

If you feel you need more punch in your fleets, I would recommend you look into t1 BCs too. Brutix, Cane, Harbi, Drake they all pack a good punch and are relatively cheap to fly (~40M after insurance). The added benefit of having one or two of those in your gang is that you can field sweet skirmish links which will greatly improve your whole gang's efficiency.
And another benefit of using Combat BC is E-Unis 50M SRP :)

I believe Chessur in his video mentioned that Naga's blaster range is not good enough... I did not play with fit, but as you are saying this... it quite approximation, it is not bad: with NULL and focus on optimal rigs optimal is 30km, falloff - 58km with and tracking twice better than Oracle.

Something like this:
Spoiler
[Naga, MWD Blaster - Nano]

Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L

Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Medium Auxiliary Thrusters I


Federation Navy Lead Charge L x320
Medium Hybrid Ambit Extension II x2
Should I focus on optimal or fall-off?
Any other improvements?
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Mols Halleck
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Re: [NANO FLEET] Small Gang Thursday - Kitey Cruisers

Post by Mols Halleck »

Budda Sereda wrote: BTW, why Talos? Would you mind to share the fit?
Just because my hybrid skills are better than my laser ones, I'll share the fit whenever we have another fleet, even if I don't fly it.

Edit: Nvm found it.
Spoiler
[Talos, Simulated Talos]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Sensor Booster II
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun

Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I



Warrior II x5

ECCM Script x1
Iron Charge L x2680
Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L x3640
Targeting Range Script x1
Scan Resolution Script x1
Nanite Repair Paste x64
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Budda Sereda
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Re: [NANO FLEET] Small Gang Thursday - Kitey Cruisers

Post by Budda Sereda »

Mols Halleck wrote:
Budda Sereda wrote:BTW, why Talos? Would you mind to share the fit?
Just because my hybrid skills are better than my laser ones[/spoiler]
Fit you have too slow (as for nano gang). In a small gang you don't really need a sensor booster, but rails tracking is low enough to use tracking computer. I'm afraid people like Raido and Glasi discourage using Talos, but if you will I'd recommend this:
Spoiler
[Talos, MWD 425mm ShieldBuff - Nano]

Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I


Hornet EC-300 x5
2 extra seconds of align won't hurt, same as extra speed will help you to stay alive.
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Glasi Vookto
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Re: [NANO FLEET] Small Gang Thursday - Kitey Cruisers

Post by Glasi Vookto »

Budda Sereda wrote:I believe Chessur in his video mentioned that Naga's blaster range is not good enough... I did not play with fit, but as you are saying this... it quite approximation, it is not bad: with NULL and focus on optimal rigs optimal is 30km, falloff - 58km with and tracking twice better than Oracle.
As I said, Oracle is still king but Naga is surprisingly not too bad and can surprise a lot of people. Like I blapped a few inties and frigs burning at me at from 40km.

Budda Sereda wrote: Something like this:
Spoiler
[Naga, MWD Blaster - Nano]

Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L

Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Medium Auxiliary Thrusters I


Federation Navy Lead Charge L x320
Medium Hybrid Ambit Extension II x2
Should I focus on optimal or fall-off?
Any other improvements?
The fit is ok, though a bit squishy for my taste. I usually go for something more conservative, something like this: https://zkillboard.com/kill/65407258/, but it's a matter of personal taste in the end.

Might need to have another look at the fit though, now that it can fit an MJD...
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