[AAR] WH gas site clearing & huffing

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Kevin Dogguide
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[AAR] WH gas site clearing & huffing

Post by Kevin Dogguide »

In continued preparation (my AMC post 03/03/18) for the weekly gas huffing fleet I am planning I have taken small groups into WHs to clear sites and huff gas. After my original post a little over a month ago I have lead 3 fleets into WHs to clear sleepers and huff gas. I have solo ninja huffed numerous times as well. This AAR will document the most recent experience.

In previous experiences (2 prior experiences clearing sites & huffing; no AARs prepared) a team of 3 people cleared numerous gas sites to allow for huffing. In this experience the fleet was smaller (2 members including myself) than before; however the goals remained the same.

Objectives:
(a) enter a WH, scan signatures
(b) trigger gas sites and reship for sleeper combat
(c) return with fleet to remove sleepers
(d) reship to huff gas
(e) payout isk for gas and loot

Participants
A general call was made in the AMC channel for interested parties. No announcement was made in any other channel (I did not think it was permitted due to Fightclub AMC OpSEC regulations). As I am new to Fc'ing a larger fleet would have been counterproductive.
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Kevin Dogguide - Brutix Navy Issue/Venture
Devoros Vyndiver - Gila/Venture
Fleet preparations:
A few WHs were scanned and deemed inappropriate in the course of preparations. The WH was evaluated prior to advertising a gas huffing opportunity and deemed to be acceptable. I scanned down signatures in the WH and found:

1 Ordinary Perimeter Reservoir
1 Token Perimeter Reservoir
2 Minor Perimeter Reservoir
3 Barren Perimeter Reservoir
2 WH entrances into null sec
1 WH entrance into C4/5

Prior to clearing sites:
A series of bookmarks were created of the signatures of interest (including WHs exits and where they lead), a safe spot, entrance and exit, and shared. Prior to entering the WH we examined the NPC entities at each site and determined the order at which to tackle the sites and targeting NPCs. The plan was to advance from easiest site to hardest (token -> minor -> barren -> ordinary) and destroy NPCs jointly instead on taking on NPC 1v1. In my hold I carried a remote armour repairer, mobile depot, MTU, probes and launcher, and a regular armour repairer. These items would be used to make repairs, scoop loot, refit, or scan an exit if the existing exit closed.

Prior to huffing gas:
An EVE site (Fuzzwork) was consulted to determine what gas to huff first, and an order established on which site to huff from first.

Significant events:
(1) All gas sites were cleared with no losses to drones or irreparable damage (in the WH) to ships.
(2) The ordinary gas site proved to be the most challenging. the distance to the sentry drones and damage inflicted resulted in team members warping to the safe spot to rep shields. The fits for the ships were for distance (31km and 41km ranges); however we were not able to deal enough damage to NPCs before they neared breaking into armour. It is possible that the ship fits could be improved upon, or further skills trained.
(3) I was unable to effectively share fleet bookmarks and needed to drag bookmarks and jet them for sharing.

Stats:
Loot (including salvage): 15,821,809.39
Gas value: 53,242,182.48
ISK delta: 69,063,991.87

FC Review
Overall the operation was run very well. Unfortunately, not all the gas was taken from the cleared sites. The operation was scrubbed when combat probes and a covert ops ship appeared on dscan. While it was an isk positive operation having more huffers present may have resulted in a greater amount of gas being taken from the WH and higher profits. It was difficult to leave 5 untouched gas sites behind.

I believe that in a gas huffing fleet several members could huff while a few scouted/guarded the huffers in cruiser/bc ships. This 'guard' would unlikely deter T3, battleships, or small-gang battlecruisers but may be enough of a deterrent to smaller threats to allow huffers to complete all sites. Alternatively, everyone huffing (without scout/guard) would be the fastest option. Hopefully as I work to get a regularly advertised gas huffing fleet at AMC off the ground there will be more people available to participate.

I need to learn more about sharing fleet bookmarks. I am unsure if there is a delay between sharing and it being available, but they did not appear in the menu after right-clicking in space.

This experience was useful to help me determine how long it would take me to scan down a few WHs and get a fleet going. Today this prep work took about 1.5 hours moving through systems, scanning down signatures, making bookmarks, researching sites, etc. A gas huffing fleet that I would be Fc'ing would probably have to start at (the earliest) 23:00. This time may be prohibitive for EU AMC members.
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Biwako Acami
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Re: [AAR] WH gas site clearing & huffing

Post by Biwako Acami »

Being nimble and aware is probably better than having something on field to deter attackers. It is more likely that the Cruiser/BC will draw someones attention over a few ventures. If you do keep a ship then a RLML Caracal could get rid of light tackle but be sure the Caracal is close and also aligned for quick warp out and don't bling anything. Disposable alts help here. Be sure to have safe bookmarks handy because one tactic is to figure out where you came from and have a bubbler and DPS ready at your exit to catch you as you react to incoming tackle on the site.

Regarding scheduling its a bit hit or miss to schedule gas huffing because you may not always find the ideal system for huffing in time for the event. Usually this kind of activity works better as a slack ping fleet response once someone finds a good system with Gas sites. But if you do plan something and don't find a suitable system you could ask the WHC fleet if they have a nearby connection, sites that you could huff and if it was OK for a fleet to enter the chain to huff for a while. We don't mind the additional attention you might draw since we're looking for PVP. I'd like to say we PvP most of the time but we may also add a few numbers to your huffing fleet.
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Rodger Kint
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Re: [AAR] WH gas site clearing & huffing

Post by Rodger Kint »

Nice write up. You've obviously really thought this through. Couple of comments:

1) Bookmarks in corporate take a few minutes to propagate to other corp members. You used to need to be sophomore in the uni to make corporate bookmarks. An alternative is to form a fleet and have the squad leader warp the group using his bookmarks where ever y'all want to go. The only real bookmark everyone has to have is the exit hole and that they can personally bookmark as they enter the hole.

2) Your Gila drone range seems low. Get a drone nav computer or train drone avionics up a bit. Seems like you ought to be able to approach 70km with those.

3) I wouldn't bother guarding ventures. Anyone that finds you in WH space has space bros. You show up in a few T3s or other cruisers they're just gonna ping for their friends and kill all of you. Ventures are cheap, come pre-stabbed, and the gas clouds are pretty large so that you can huff 20k apart so a dictor will usually only be able to pin one down at a time. It's more economical to add more ventures than to add guards. Huff faster, leave less time for hunters to find you.

4) I did this weekly back in the AMC 2 years ago. A couple of times I found a c5 with an instrumental cloud. The C320 was SWEET! Of course, clearing the rats in a c5 doesn't work so well, it was all ninja huffing. Huff until the rats show up and then bug out.
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Kevin Dogguide
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Re: [AAR] WH gas site clearing & huffing

Post by Kevin Dogguide »

Biwako Acami wrote:Being nimble and aware is probably better than having something on field to deter attackers. It is more likely that the Cruiser/BC will draw someones attention over a few ventures. If you do keep a ship then a RLML Caracal could get rid of light tackle but be sure the Caracal is close and also aligned for quick warp out and don't bling anything. Disposable alts help here. Be sure to have safe bookmarks handy because one tactic is to figure out where you came from and have a bubbler and DPS ready at your exit to catch you as you react to incoming tackle on the site.

Regarding scheduling its a bit hit or miss to schedule gas huffing because you may not always find the ideal system for huffing in time for the event. Usually this kind of activity works better as a slack ping fleet response once someone finds a good system with Gas sites. But if you do plan something and don't find a suitable system you could ask the WHC fleet if they have a nearby connection, sites that you could huff and if it was OK for a fleet to enter the chain to huff for a while. We don't mind the additional attention you might draw since we're looking for PVP. I'd like to say we PvP most of the time but we may also add a few numbers to your huffing fleet.
As I have thought about it I've moved away from a 'venture guard' idea. Really the best thing is to have more vacuum cleaners in space to get that gas and that would be the way to move forward.

Thank you for the offer to do a cross campus initiative at WHC. I'll keep that in mind; I did also think about doing a day trip to WHC for huffing. About the timing of a fleet, if an appropriate site isn't found for huffing in the WH I also thought that making it into a WH dive for ore or combat sites may be a way forward. It would be disappointing to sign up for a WH fleet and then it's called off because gas isn't found in time. Running WH sites may be possible as we would have ships to clear sleepers, and the loot could be profitable.
Rodger Kint wrote:Nice write up. You've obviously really thought this through. Couple of comments:

1) Bookmarks in corporate take a few minutes to propagate to other corp members. You used to need to be sophomore in the uni to make corporate bookmarks. An alternative is to form a fleet and have the squad leader warp the group using his bookmarks where ever y'all want to go. The only real bookmark everyone has to have is the exit hole and that they can personally bookmark as they enter the hole.

2) Your Gila drone range seems low. Get a drone nav computer or train drone avionics up a bit. Seems like you ought to be able to approach 70km with those.

3) I wouldn't bother guarding ventures. Anyone that finds you in WH space has space bros. You show up in a few T3s or other cruisers they're just gonna ping for their friends and kill all of you. Ventures are cheap, come pre-stabbed, and the gas clouds are pretty large so that you can huff 20k apart so a dictor will usually only be able to pin one down at a time. It's more economical to add more ventures than to add guards. Huff faster, leave less time for hunters to find you.

4) I did this weekly back in the AMC 2 years ago. A couple of times I found a c5 with an instrumental cloud. The C320 was SWEET! Of course, clearing the rats in a c5 doesn't work so well, it was all ninja huffing. Huff until the rats show up and then bug out.
Thanks for the kind words. I will try the bookmarks again but do it early in the preparations to make sure they are available. I don't remember the Gila's drone range, but I will look at my own skills and pass on that information. I have thought more about the 'guards' and having more huffers is the more time conservative option.
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