[AAR] Housewarming Talwars for PH - 2018.03.31

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Eadrom Vintarus
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[AAR] Housewarming Talwars for PH - 2018.03.31

Post by Eadrom Vintarus »

PLEASE GIVE ME FEEDBACK SO I CAN LEARN:
https://goo.gl/forms/W6OTiwPMD2Lu1lmL2
^ Fill out that form and / or post in this thread.

SRP Forms:
BLAP Talwars - https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... w/viewform
Non-Talwar T1 Hulls - https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... Q/viewform

Roam members (17)
Spoiler
Budda Sereda - Talwar
Calder Ormand - Sabre
De W Javqe - Atron
Eadrom Vintarus - Talwar
Gemma Solett - Talwar
Kontxesi Buchanan - Talwar
Mols Halleck - Talwar
Peter Pantaloons - Talwar
Reise Amatin - Talwar
Sagittarius Griffins - Condor
Satoshi Tomeii - Talwar
Space Warfare Development - ?
Vors Voorhorian - Talwar
Vrix Torqueo - Talwar
Xafen Katapi - Executioner
Xiqnorzcht - Talwar
Xivik Skord - Talwar
First, a huge thank you to everyone that came out. This was my first PvP fleet I've FC'ed and ya'll made it very enjoyable. Big thank you to you all!

We had a bit of a slow start, as staging is pretty far off the beaten path for most unistas and people were burning here from their campuses in the west. We undocked at 0220. I did some explaining about how I intended to fly the fleet. I noted that "burn away" meant to burn towards system's star unless hostiles were in between star and us, then burn away from star (that leaves us w/o an instant warp off though so perhaps a different celestial could be a better default or I just need to keep awareness of system's geography and call specific to system.

The route we were going to take down through Akkio had a smartbombing battleship on it, and as fun as it would be to lose my first fleet to smartbombs, I checked the main route into Horde space via BFW-ZZ and it appeared to not have a gate camp, so I deleted the route I had planned and decided to wing it and go through that entrance.

We then spent around an hour warping around looking for ratters to poke to evoke a QRF we could haze. We went though the IPS-QB, N-K4Q0, ZYL-FT, UBPU-9, and then RJ-1R7 constellations looking for stuff to poke with nothing in site beyond an inty that we thought might be shadowing us and then a a pair of vindicators that were being very skittish (not sure we could have taken that fight even if we had found them).

We were in TZL-WT deciding where to go next, when Budda suggested O-VWPB due to the high ship kills reported on DOTLAN. I asked the fleet and we agreed to burn back that way for glorious explosions instead of looking for more ratters that seemed to be in short supply tonight. So we reset destination and started burning quickly in that direction.

It was quiet until we got to OEY-OR. Once there, we killed a catch bubble off the 2E- gate since we just hadn't shot anything yet and I felt like it would be good to see an explosion after over an hour of roaming. Sorry Snuff! It wasn't personal. =) We warped to the 39- gate and got caught in another bubble, which we also killed (sorry again lightnin990 Ahishatsu). Lightnin990 said there was a fleet of Merlins coming from behind us in O1- and then we found out about a stabber fleet coming from ahead of us in 39-. Finally, some content!

Very shortly afterwards, the PH stabber fleet jumped into us at the 39- gate. They were at a great range for us, around 30km or so away, IIRC. I started calling some frigate sized targets (BUT DIDN'T BROADCAST, doh!). I ordered fleet to align to the sun and prop mods on. We popped a couple frigates despite my lack of broadcasting. We started losing talwars and enemy fleet was closing, and drones were swarming, so I ordered fleet to warp off to the sun. We lost a few talwars, but still had our sabre and enough of talwars for another attempt.

We got eyes on their fleet, which had warped to the O1- gate. I ordered us to warp in at 30km and immediately turn around and burn towards sun with prop mods on. I started pretty unclearly calling targets and broadcasting. It was here that my multi-tasking broke down between flying my own ship and trying to broadcast and watch chat for losses and look at the battlefield. We popped a few of their small ships again, and then broke off and warped back to the sun after I noticed they had stopped chasing us, but their drones were killing us pretty fast. We lost more talwars and I think at this point we had a few left and still our sabre.

We decided a glorious final assault would be the only good resolution and so we warped back to their fleet at 0. I'm not sure if we killed anyone or not, but this is where I died. Scatter command given shortly after and a motley collection of our scout, our sabre, and two pods crashed the gate towards home and we burned back to staging without further incident. Good fights were exchanged in local and we left having sated our need for pew pew. It looks like Snuff and PH had a nice brawl after we left.

The Good:
- More people showed up than I expected! I had a backup plan to take out attack frigates if we didn't get 10 for talwars and we had plenty enough talwars to start popping small stuff.
- We got some kills and we didn't all die to a smartbombing battleship or something like that.
- Spirits were high, comm discipline was fantastic, and fleet moved around pretty much perfectly. I didn't see any lemmings and people held cloak when asked and so on.
- I think I did a decent job moving the fleet around.
- Our scout was a newbro to the role (if not in SP as well???) and he stepped up fantastically. Thank you specifically to Xafen for his hard work trying to find us content and helping us move around safely.

The Bad:
- There wasn't near as much content as I expected. I need to do better research on the geopgraphy of the region. Heading closer to PH region capital will allow us to get into fighting more quickly. We went away from there towards ratting pockets that ended up being basically empty. Perhaps as time goes on, PH will spead out more towards these other ratting pockets but they seem more concentrated in the east side of Geminate for now.
- My target calling + broadcasting needs work. While I did verbally call targets, I completely forgot about broadcasting in the first engagement. I didn't quite seize up, but I got close in the second engagement. I need to be a lot more vocal and clear about what I want everyone to be shooting.
- I completely forgot to ask if we had fleet newbros and so if I needed to give a newbro speech. >< I am very sorry if we had anyone with us that I didn't offer to explain core fleet concepts to!

Kills and Losses
(03:44:03) OEY-OR, O1-FTD
Mobile Small Warp Disruptor I +0.85m
Mobile Small Warp Disruptor I +0.85m
Merlin +0.62m
Talwar -5.98m
Talwar -8.09m
Talwar -9.55m
Capsule -0.01m
Capsule -0.01m
Talwar -10.44m
Vigil +1.79m
Talwar -17.39m
Merlin +0.68m
Talwar -11.81m
Capsule -0.73m
Talwar -10.51m
Capsule -0.7m
Condor -6.45m
Atron -4.46m
Merlin +22.44m
Talwar -7.33m
Talwar -10.41m
Merlin +13.23m
Talwar -12.93m
Capsule -0.01m


Stats
ISK Destroyed: 40,468,239.59
ISK Lost: 116,804,308.59
ISK Delta: -76,336,069
Efficiency: 25.731%

Thank you to Laser Skaron for excellent AAR tool!
\o/ Retired \o/ Director of Special Projects - NSC, LSC, Solitude Campuses, and the Fleet Command Course
Feeling lost or overwhelmed? Request an E-UNI Mentor today!
Looking for small gang PVP and BLOPs'ing? Look at J-Drop today!

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Peter Pantaloons
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Re: [AAR] Housewarming Talwars for PH - 2018.03.31

Post by Peter Pantaloons »

I enjoyed the fleet, and kudos to you for putting yourself out there by playing the FC role. I plan on attending more of your fleets in the future.
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Sagittarius Griffins
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Re: [AAR] Housewarming Talwars for PH - 2018.03.31

Post by Sagittarius Griffins »

Fleet felt a bit content dry at the beginning, but I was definitely not prepared for the fights we had with the stabber fleet. As a light tackle Condor, I wasn't really sure how I should have flown my ship as my engagement range ~25km wasn't on par with the talwars and didn't know where to put my point, and didn't feel like I contributed much of anything to that fight. Added to that I was slow to find primaries on my overview and was confused. If any pilots with tackle or inty experience could explain to me how light tackles should be flown in a fleet fight that would be great.
What I learned:
- guns free on any ship we find on a gate in null sec
- don't get too close to enemy fleet DPS
- light tackle is hard :(

I think we should have tried to find or waited for the Merlin fleet that was coming in, which probably would have been a much more engageable force. This fleet was a valuable light tackle learning experience for me.
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Jun Mikoto
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Re: [AAR] Housewarming Talwars for PH - 2018.03.31

Post by Jun Mikoto »

Sagittarius Griffins wrote:... As a light tackle Condor, .....

If any pilots with tackle or inty experience could explain to me how light tackles should be flown in a fleet fight that would be great.
....
- light tackle is hard :(
I am NOT an experienced First Tackle in the way that i know what to do, but i tried sometimes and my opinion on this is:

- Fleet Tackle in a T1 Frigate is suicide. If you put your MWD on, your signature (the size of your ship for damage calculation) is like a battlecruiser and so you are easier to hit for turrets and missiles apply much more damage on you. But you have NO tank, so you get popped. If you DON'T put your MWD on, you are to slow and get popped. Loss: -5 to 10M ISK

- If you take out a shiny T2 Ceptor, you can put your MWD on, BUT you are inexperienced in manual piloting (clicking useful in space with a plan how to move your ship around your opponent), but if you just hit "orbit" your Intie goes to the target in a straight line, so you get popped. Loss: a minimum of 30M ISK

... and still no point on target.

A useful reading might be Skirmish Intercepors by AU - "...This requires a good understanding of your surroundings as well as your own fleet composition and pilot capabilities...." - Sounds not very newbro friendly to me, but that's just my two cents.
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Budda Sereda
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Re: [AAR] Housewarming Talwars for PH - 2018.03.31

Post by Budda Sereda »

Hi Eadrom, I enjoyed the fleet and I thought I would share few pieces of feedback from my side, hope that will help many FCs flying Talwars.

First, let me comment on comments :)
Eadrom wrote:The route we were going to take down through Akkio had a smartbombing battleship on it, and as fun as it would be to lose my first fleet to smartbombs, I checked the main route into Horde space via BFW-ZZ and it appeared to not have a gate camp, so I deleted the route I had planned and decided to wing it and go through that entrance.
You can avoid SB BSs by warping to a tactical on opposite to BSs side of the gate. After that you can warp to gate and jump safely :)
Eadrom wrote:We then spent around an hour warping around looking for ratters to poke to evoke a QRF we could haze.
I'm not a frequent guest in Geminate, that was just a 2nd fleet: neither had any ratters... I guess people learned it is not a safe place to rat. And I guess PH folks ratting 'behind' their home protection.
Eadrom wrote:It was quiet until we got to OEY-OR. Once there, we killed a catch bubble off the 2E- gate since we just hadn't shot anything yet and I felt like it would be good to see an explosion after over an hour of roaming. Sorry Snuff! It wasn't personal. =) We warped to the 39- gate and got caught in another bubble, which we also killed (sorry again lightnin990 Ahishatsu).
I would say this is a learning point for a scout: he should report about bubbles. Not that it did matter this time, but for roaming in nul this is an important information.
Eadrom wrote:It was here that my multi-tasking broke down between flying my own ship and trying to broadcast and watch chat for losses and look at the battlefield.
There are FC who do lots of multitasking, but not many. And especially I would not recommend doing so the first time you FCing :)
You had an anchor and should have called to anchor up :)
Eadrom wrote:My target calling + broadcasting needs work. While I did verbally call targets, I completely forgot about broadcasting in the first engagement.
You could also have asked somebody to help broadcasting. Usual things many FCs do.
Sagittarius Griffins wrote:Fleet felt a bit content dry at the beginning, but I was definitely not prepared for the fights we had with the stabber fleet. As a light tackle Condor, I wasn't really sure how I should have flown my ship as my engagement range ~25km
Stay at range and wait for FC to call to tackle something. You would not get on killmails, but would be helpful to the fleet.
Ideally, you should have tactical BM at 200+ km from the gate and be able to warp to engagement place when needed. Another good option is to have plenty of BMs around the gate so you can warp from many angles.
Another good thing is to ask FC before undocking: how does he want you to fly your ship.

Jun Mikoto wrote very well about tackle and ceptors, though I would strongly discourage to think about 30M kill mail. First of all, it is 50M, but you get 25M SRP from E-Uni (plus sometimes from FC).
Flying a ceptor is a super fun. If I don't FC, I try to fly it. Sometimes I still do silly mistakes and die shamefully, sometimes I do rock (yesterday's fleet with SF was a blast, I did make MANY catches and survived the whole fleet). So PRACTICE!

And one more thing from my side:

Never warp fleet to the gate in nul, unless scout confirmed gate is empty. Why? Smart opponents usually know you are in space and very often drop a bubble just-in-case. If you warp to the gate (does not matter what range) you will be dragged.
If you have a ceptor pilot (and you should ALWAYS ask for it going to nul) you can ask him to warp to a gate at range, make tactical aside of your warp-in vector. And then you can warp to you ceptor. Again, at range.

Engagement of BLAP Talwars should be started at BIG range. Our range this time was around 50-60km. So we should start engagement at 50km and immediately start burning away. Presumably opponent will be catching us, so this will give us a little bit more of range (3-6-9 km).

And nevertheless to quite a bit of feedback:

I did enjoy the fleet: 25 jumps was not too bad, Eadrom - you did well, we found content and got quite a few kills. And with broadcasts I'm sure we would kill more :)

Looking forward to fly with you again!
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Xafen Katapi
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Re: [AAR] Housewarming Talwars for PH - 2018.03.31

Post by Xafen Katapi »

I had a good time learning a lot as a fleet scout. We started the fleet off with 2 scouts and I asked to be secondary warning that I was newbro at it. I'm not quite sure why we ended up going out with just me scouting. Unfortunately I'm 3 days out yet from interceptor training, but I'll definitely be running maledictions asap. I did what I could and next time I'll definitely have more tools (skills/experience) at my disposal to help things along, and have the Malediction fit.
Budda wrote:
Eadrom wrote:It was quiet until we got to OEY-OR. Once there, we killed a catch bubble off the 2E- gate since we just hadn't shot anything yet and I felt like it would be good to see an explosion after over an hour of roaming. Sorry Snuff! It wasn't personal. =) We warped to the 39- gate and got caught in another bubble, which we also killed (sorry again lightnin990 Ahishatsu).
I would say this is a learning point for a scout: he should report about bubbles. Not that it did matter this time, but for roaming in nul this is an important information.
Just my small clarification on this point.

I called outgate in 01- clear and jumped into OEY. Upon loading I called "small warp bubble" not remembering how to differentiate that thing and a large interdiction sphere. After a minute of describing the bubble they realized it was just the mobile warp disrupter. I proceeded to jump the outgate (to 39-). The outgate was clear with nothing around it as I landed and jumped through. I called the outgate clear and I believe the fleet then jumped into OEY and aligned 39- gate. Upon me loading into 39- an interdiction sphere was just expanding and a large fleet of stabbers was at 0 on the OEY gate (in 39-). I did have the opportunity to dscan it (habitual spamming of dscan ) but don't seem to have dcsan.me'd. It was asked (maybe by FC?) if I could burn back to the gate, but I saw I was just a few clicks from the edge of the bubble and very far from the gate. I elected to burn out of the bubble (probably 5km at most it took me to get out, I was oddly close to the edge) and warp off to create safes in 39-. Trying to gate crash there would have almost certainly led to my useless death. I called the fleet disappearing from 39- (going into OEY). I don't know what happened in the bit of time after that until I was able to get back into OEY. I didn't quite have the presence of mind to get a dscan of the fleet posted as a dscan.me before they jumped in to OEY.

Sagittarius did call the outgate bubbled (I don't know when in timeline this was) and I believe it was an informed decision to go take that fight. This was also communicated in Mumble iirc.
[ 2018.03.31 03:53:42 ] Sagittarius Griffins > FC i have eyes
[ 2018.03.31 03:53:45 ] Sagittarius Griffins > they are at the gate
[ 2018.03.31 03:53:47 ] Sagittarius Griffins > bubbled

Mobile Warp disrupter kill times:
[ 2018.03.31 03:45:08 ] Budda Sereda > Kill: Thorasta (Mobile Small Warp Disruptor I)
[ 2018.03.31 03:46:28 ] Peter Pantaloons > Kill: lightnin990 Ahishatsu (Mobile Small Warp Disruptor I)

A dscan at some point, https://dscan.me/9oRfJH I believe this was after the first fight in OEY after I was able to get back in. And another fyi, https://dscan.me/yDLMt6.

I look forward to the next fleet that I'm flying a Malediction!

Another fun bit (and small fail on my part) was the spotting of a titan. This encounter came after I spotted a cyno field go up, and I warped in to 100 on it. https://dscan.me/ANzVNK I neglected to make a bookmark at 100k off where I found it though and nearly as soon as I warped off people asked about warping in to see...oops, and the cyno field was down shortly not allowing me to easily find my way back.

One last thing, comms did seem a bit muddy at times. Saggitariu's bubble warning might have been missed, and sometimes it felt as if my gate/system clear calls were not heard.
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Budda Sereda
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Re: [AAR] Housewarming Talwars for PH - 2018.03.31

Post by Budda Sereda »

It looks like I did miss you've communicated information about the bubble. Sorry about that. I do admit I was multitasking and looks like missed that.
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