[AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

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K950
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[AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

Post by K950 »

Right.

In the Beginnings
So the University has ran various fleets over the years, of varying scope and capacity, to go after or accomplish specific goals. Recently the introduction of Forward Operations Bases held by the Guristas Pirates and the Blood Raiders has caused no small amount of interest from the curious types like me to miners who just warped their Orca to a belt or doing something else pretty dodgy and found out that the NPCs probably like that belt more than you do.

In particular, the University has ran or semi-ran 4-5 fleets towards these structures in recent days, and ALL of them have been failures. Most of them were due to a number of highly controllable circumstances. Today, those circumstances were reduced to fewer uncontrollable factors, but the problems with them remain.

Therefore it fell upon me, as a bit of an expert (more like, "He knows a bit about them, but is not an authoritative expert") to tackle one of these sites myself.

No Fear
Myself. I want one of those structure killmails myself, I said. So I tried: Most people used shiny expensive faction **** like 500MN storyline fit Cerberus cruisers and stuff. Usually you'll find that while I do like shinies, I'm allergic to actually using them. So figured I'd show them up a bit and just use a T1 hull.

That's how that went.

This AAR isn't about me, it's about a fleet, so we'll move back on track. No you can't do it solo outside of some ridiculous 15000 EHP/sec Marauder. We'll find out how well that works the next time we get a SISI mirror.

Therefore
Previous attempts were laid part due to the failure of the pilots and FC to account for the known properties of the NPCs. They are not normal NPCs. However the Gurista ones do exclusively Thermal damage, namely Dread Guristas Inferno Rockets, Dread Guristas Inferno Heavy Assault Missiles, and Guristas Inferno Cruise missiles. Nice.

When choosing a ship to perform a particular job, especially in a fleet, the designer must take into account a number of variables concerning each weapon system and hull type. The intricacies are many, but I'll split out the basics as below:

1) Drones: Selectable damage, allows DPS to continue if host is jammed, drones are subject to travel time and can be eliminated
2) Missiles: Selectable damage, delayed damage, can have projection (HAM) or application problems (HM) or just low DPS on the hulls they use (HM)
3) Autocannons: Semi-selectable damage, suffers from falloff problems
4) Hybrids: Fixed damage, tracking concerns our scope, application requires Recons, damage is reduced with range
5) Energy: Fixed damage, same as last
6) Smartbomb: Not suitable for this endeavor

I settled on the Prophecy as a DPS hull because going with Rapid Light Missile Launchers means fewer problems with application. The NPC ships use afterburners, except for the tackle frigates, but there's different types of those, as 1 type uses MWDs and the other type uses ABs. Then the drones allowed us to have some hope for application against the same stuff, but with more range. The Prophecies also have a utility high slot that allows us to spread links across the fleet to improve our effectiveness.

Furthermore, the Prophecy's tank bonus to armor resistances, its generous low slots and capable midslot arrangement, suit it well for fitting up for extremely high Thermal resistances, in excess of 94% with decent skills, permitting a tank of roughly 380.000 EHP against Thermal damage. This allows the fleet to concern itself more with its logistic wing to handle itself.

Speaking of that, the only choice for this job, at least UNI-wise, is the humble Augoror. This vessel was also specified for an very high Thermal damage resistance, approximately 92%. Combined with remote sensor links across the cap chain, amplified with Information links, means a good Augoror pilot can have a sensor strength over 80.

Previous fleets indicated problems with ECM and neuting shutting off hardeners as being principle culprits for logistics deaths. Learning from their successes and failures, I implemented the doctrine as such.

The Going

After reasonable attempts to advertise and snuggle the fleet in a nice murky cloud of smoke our fleet began on time on this homely day. Some early birds made me proud by Actually Having A Doctrine Ship Ready. Form-up was about an hour long. While I'm not an accomplished FC by the most remote of measures, there's one thing I made sure I don't repeat and endure since that 2.5 hour BB formup:

I HATE LONG FORMUPS

There.

After sorting out ships and stuff, I noticed a conspicuous lack of numbers. I had only half the numbers I needed. Kinda odd I felt, but I'm not left with much choice. I work weekends, since time began, and the 19:00 timeslot is a fiercely contested slot, so I figured I'd start at 18:30 to get going sooner. But at peak we had 16 in fleet including myself. I wasn't feeling easy. But let's try anyways: blueballs suck, so at least perhaps we can try for some PvP on the way? Because of our low numbers, I could only afford one scout, good old Decklin, and a Hyena pilot who can support said tackle pilot and slow down pirate-grade nonsense, and nobody else. I looked for a command destroyer, 3 scouts and 1 Crucifier pilot (mainly for PvP on the way and back) and 12-15 Augorors and 12-15 DPS.

Actually we only had 5 logistics pilots. 5. Decklin borrowed my Guardian (he probably noticed the trimark/ACR config: yes, double ACR is for w-space only boys, outside of w-space that'll get you killed). We had the remainder in Prophecies and myself in a double web Ashimmu because a Huginn costs too much. I have Recon V too...with skirmish links, the Ashimmu has respectable web range, at least for this work.

Nobody knew my destination. Any fleet like this without some chance of PvP is a waste of time in my sight: How could I, as a low-end wannabe PvP pilot, ignore a chance to get shot at and try to blow someone else up? But I shrouded the fleet in some level of mystery, as I had us go to one destination, then move next door, dock up, refit without warning, warp to a wormhole?

I found it amusing, but barely. I'm not much of a scheming kind but I felt that if I said right out we're going to shoot a FOB I probably would have gotten as much as if I made a fleet of WHAT ARE WE GOING AFTER? Mystery works. It sells billions of real world monies every year. People love it.
Hideo Date > i think we will get trolled :D
We then made our way to a specific highsec system where I had located a suitable FOB and made bookmarks on it. 2 Perches, Two bookmarks North East West South High and Low at 200km and 400km distances.

Except there is One Small Problem
I fleet warped us to my first perch off the FOB and prepared us for a battle. When we landed, it wasn't there. Sure? I checked my overview tabs. Nope, not there. Quickly load NPC Mining Op, it's on there. Nope. Not there. It moved. That's new.

So I had to have Taq go out and make a bookmark for us off one of the other FOBs in system 400km off. You absolutely do not want to fight citadel EWAR and nuets while dealing with the NPCs. Previously you could ignore it, but not anymore. That was a second fatal mistake previous fleets made.

After warping us to the 400km bookmark, the battle was on. I specifically made sure to delete Kestrels (their only tackle) followed by logistics cruisers, confident that the very high sensor strength of our Augorors would make them very difficult to jam. Because we were below safe margins for logistics, this was a case of hairline work, which is why I had to have Decklin in my Guardian because simply didn't have enough logistics. You need enough logistics for redundancy - if they jam 2, you still need more than enough logistics to meet DPS requirements. Their alpha damage is going to be high with missiles.

My plan was to first delete Kestrels, wipe out logistics as fast as possible, then blow through DPS faster than they can update the field with more ships. It seems as part of the December update they spawn a new wave roughly every 60 seconds or so: if I can remove the first wave before the second hits, it'll be much more manageable rather than being upshipped in the order of roughly a dozen battleships, 50 Caracals and probably half a dozen Gilas. That's Capital Grade and we are not really ready for that yet.

Initially we went fine. Tackle got removed fast, but we had some problems shooting stuff, the NPCs were warping around. I was watching my watchlist of everybody in the fleet and I saw an Augoror in low armor. I knew we were in trouble. Late broadcast? Probably not, I held a warm-up drill before hand, but maybe overwhelmed? I decided to hang out for a bit longer, then saw a Guardian taking damage, then another logistics pilot, aggro was shifting around. Then suddenly another Augoror pops. Nope, we're done here.

We regrouped at the Sun, the best place for things to happen, and the safest place to be (lol). Some debriefing, chatter about how we did, and some nice discussion.

Let's go home
We then headed back to Ich to fit back into more normal tanks, and made way for home. Decklin caught an ONI, but the ONI is a slippery beast, so we had to call it off. We didn't get much else on the way.

Aftermath
Positives:
+ Formup wasn't too long, wished it was shorter though
+ People who brought the stuff, brought the stuff specified
+ We only lost two Augorors
+ I believe we almost met DPS numbers called
+ Decklin was a great scout. Never run a fleet without a competent scout. A newbie is NOT a scout: your fleet's direction and course depends on your scout's experience
+ People offered very constructive feedback and thoughts

Nobody's fault (but since I was FC, the fault is mine):
o I think I will agree that in spite of our flexibility of DPS and DPS application, hitting things was still a problem

Negatives (Also my fault as FC):
- Short on logistics. Future FCs: Bring a FULL logi squad (10) at least. Probably 2 would be better.
- The mess involving the repositioning of the FOB was annoying (I guess I didn't need those bookmarks after all)
- I think I should have brought a Recon instead, while I had web range with the Ashimmu, it wasn't enough
- We didn't kill anybody on the way
- I think we really needed T2 logi, but we can't really field those in the numbers we needed


There's more on my head. Gotta clear my head and think about this.

Will there be another fleet?
Of course.

I have another idea.

Folks, next time, you'll have to spend a little extra money, but I promise that you'll have another use for the hull after we're done with it. Set aside 300 million ISK. Train all 4 battleships to at 3, at least.

"What time?" Maybe end of the month/very early March?

I'll be back.
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Zeerse Solaris
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Re: [AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

Post by Zeerse Solaris »

Your fleet advert was a bit too cryptic, so with a few conflicting priorities for what I want to do at the moment, decided not to travel over from the AMC. If I'd known it was a FOB, I would have got involved.
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Ersin Oghuz
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Re: [AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

Post by Ersin Oghuz »

You worked hard for this and thanks for the content. I have some points to state of course :) ;

- Since you have some knowledge and experience on FOBs, from both personal and from previous fleet engagements done by others, you should have double check logistics repair rate before undocking. It was proven before that even T2 logistic squad can fail under heavy fire and it seems that the logistics repair rate failed to encounter incoming damage. It is like we are burning our logistics fast in our anti-FOB fleets.
- Secondly, though I like to cross-train, it can be more convenient if you decide on a sound doctrine and plan before asking people to spare 300 million ISK and train racial battleship skill :wink: .
- There are some corporations runs those sites with a fixed Vindicator+Nestor doctrine so maybe you can investigate this in detail to check what kind of EHP, DPS and Repair rate you will need on field and then build a T1 doctrine to imitate those numbers. Personally I am working on Amarr anti-FOB doctrine involving Amarr BS and Augoror with boosted Thermal resists. (Double Plate Abaddon (Abaddon has 4% natural armor resists per Amarr BS level)+ ReSeBo&SeBo Augoror (ReSeBo goes to BSs to tackle ships fast))

And yes I am still salty about those FOBs and we need to stop them from invading our space!
"In Blasters I Trust"

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Zoltan Irvam
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Re: [AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

Post by Zoltan Irvam »

Hi,

too bad I couldn't be there... but another DPS wouldn't have tilted the scales anyways. I have two comments to make.

- maybe ask the Incursions Community if they want to join for this for a change. They have experience in fighting wave after wave of NPC ships and they have seasoned T2 logi pilots used to work under pressure. On the down side, they usually fly shield...

- regarding training all 4 racial BS skills to 4 and saving up 300m I smell Nestor logi... not sure if you'll find a lot of pilots for this, although I thin I have read about these being used successfully, but the investment is huge...

Zoltan
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Erwin Madelung
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Re: [AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

Post by Erwin Madelung »

Op-sec here reaches new highs of riduculousness when we aren't told what the plan is for a PvE fleet. I'll let you in on a secret: Nobody cares if we run a fleet against an FOB. If you are still really worried, announce a fleet against an FOB but don't say which one, and then we can simply form a travel PvP fleet to get there.
Why is it important to tell people what is going to happen? Because they could stop you from stupid mistakes. Here's an excerpt from the fleet chat after we got our refit modules:
[ 2018.02.06 20:21:16 ] Erwin Madelung > its an gurista FOB ;)
[ 2018.02.06 20:21:28 ] Muzzy Chuck > Trillian Ituin Ah, that's okay then. I'm easily confused.
[ 2018.02.06 20:21:29 ] Hirmuolio Pine > :D
[ 2018.02.06 20:21:31 ] Hirmuolio Pine > FOB :D
[ 2018.02.06 20:21:35 ] Hirmuolio Pine > We don't have enough tank though
And surprise! He was right.
Previous fleets indicated problems with ECM and neuting shutting off hardeners as being principle culprits for logistics deaths.
Not really true. In fleet number 4 we had problems with ECM and neuting, but we were already having problems keeping the logi alive while their hardeners were actually working. In that attempt we collapsed because the cap chain collapsed. After that, we of course had problems with the hardeners, but passive mods wouldn't have saved us. Sadly I didn't record that fleet. Further, your fit relied on "Reactive Armor Hardener", so if anyone ran into cap trouble, your fit would have lost 60% of its tank too.

Because people have always told many different versions of what happened in the FOB fleets, I recorded the fleet from my perspective (the chat isn't covered, but it's only fleet and logi chat with nothing of importance in it, so I think it's fine). The warp to the FOB is at 1:09 in the video and rats start aggressing at 2:28. Before that, you can easily see how they use their 'bookmarks' to warp around on the grid.
Spoiler
You can also see that I am yellow boxed. After the fleet, people claimed that they were red boxed without being yellow boxed. I can understand that someone might miss seeing that they were being yellow boxed, but I'll only believe such statements if someone will show me a recording of it and this is the reason why I recorded it myself.
At 3:49 the rats successfully jam me and then Hideo Date goes down (I also overcommitted my reps and reacted too slowly, but that wouldn't have mattered as I was jammed anyway). The rats then deaggress for a moment and we rearranged the cap chain.
At 6:20 the rats warp back to us and aggro Himuolio Pine first, but only very weakly. I activate one rep on him even before he's in armor (armor reps land on the end of the cycle and if he really gets a full volley he would need that rep), but the rats instead fully aggro B'aldrick Aivoras. Notice how fast he goes down. He didn't broadcast for reps at all, and my reppers were only at half cycle when he died. You can also clearly see that no other reps land on him either. Soon after that the FC decides to disengage.
I'm covering that part in such detail to show how difficult it is to catch reps on a fellow logi in this site. Furthermore, we can see that the tank of the logi was far too small to take 2 volleys from the rats (At least I think those were 2 volleys; at one volley he would have gone down even faster).

tl;dr:
If you plan an unusual fleet, don't keep it more secret than necessary, and ask people who have done something similar for advice. Otherwise you are simply bound to fail.
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Treatle Omaristos
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Re: [AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

Post by Treatle Omaristos »

K950, first of all many thanks for an enjoyable fleet.

I am going to suggest something unusual, I am going to suggest that you might have had too many logi ships in the fleet...... why do I say this? Let's look at some data from my combat logs:

20:57:34 953
20:57:40 1114
20:57:46 1114
20:57:53 768
20:57:59 101
20:58:01 165
20:58:05 83
20:58:06 80
20:58:11 0
20:58:12 61
20:58:19 54
20:59:35 107
20:59:35 0
20:59:36 0
20:59:39 0

Red = Guristas Inferno Heavy Missile from a Gila
Green = remote repair

My thermal armour resists were 95% and I had over 22k in armour HP. Once I was into armour and my reactive hardener had kicked in, with each Guristas Inferno Heavy Missile hitting me for just 54-61 damage my armour was going to last a long time. I had four remote reps on me, in retrospect a single one would have been sufficient, at least at that stage of the fight. Something radical for you to think about - would remote reps from another Prophecy have been sufficient?
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Rashar Arji
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Re: [AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

Post by Rashar Arji »

1) Drones: Selectable damage, allows DPS to continue if host is jammed, drones are subject to travel time and can be eliminated
2) Missiles: Selectable damage, delayed damage, can have projection (HAM) or application problems (HM) or just low DPS on the hulls they use (HM)
3) Autocannons: Semi-selectable damage, suffers from falloff problems
4) Hybrids: Fixed damage, tracking concerns our scope, application requires Recons, damage is reduced with range
5) Energy: Fixed damage, same as last
6) Smartbomb: Not suitable for this endeavor
You probably shouldn't compare long range and short range weaponry in the same list. It's kind of like compared apples and oranges.
4) Hybrids: Fixed damage, tracking concerns our scope, application requires Recons, damage is reduced with range
There's a lot of wrongs with this statement for instance.
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Hirmuolio Pine
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Re: [AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

Post by Hirmuolio Pine »

Maybe we are looking for content and don't see the wood for the trees.

Guristas FOB means that the system has Guristas miners.
This means Guristas haulers.
This means Guristas skins. Drools at 1 bil skin.

Unfortunately killing Guristas haulers is much harder than killing the usual empire haulers.
If you land on grid they will warp off before you even get tackle so you need a fast frigate helping in catching (T1 explorer with combat probes). Having good standings may make them not run away (I have -0.24 after skills).

The Guristas response fleet uses warp scramblers. The real WARP SCRAMBLERS. So no running away with MJD.

The frigate response fleet had only one frigate with scram so it shouldn't be too hard to clear scrams to run away if you bring some friends with anti frigate ship.

ECM. ECM. ECM.

Edit: Scan/tackle heron with combat fit vargur seems to work well. At least on the T1 hauler. With bastion you are immune to scrams and after the bastion ends it takes a while for the rat to scram again alowing you to run away. Bastion also makes immune to ECM.
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Re: [AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

Post by K950 »

Zeerse responds:
The secrecy thing was mentioned before, thank you for replying with such.

Ersin comments:
The T2 logistics vessels which responded as part of the WHC response were not fit for the job, both in rigs and in lows. It would be been better to use a ACR/Trimark fit with a fit somewhat similar to what Decklin fielded with my personal Guardian.

As for the doctrine, I think that as part of my Next Plan, we will do something very different. That will be a moment for a another time in the very near future. The "Corporations" you speak of which have been doing these hunts are what I believe is a multiboxing character or a collection of particularly conforming pilots, which is usually rare in the wild.

Zoltan speaks:
The Incursion community is a rather interesting choice, I will have to store your idea in my memory banks.

Erwin outlays:
Thank you for your comments.

For tank, the Prophecies had more than enough tank, with even moderate skills (All 4s) each has roughly 380k EHP against Thermal damage, and with the 3 links we had, bumped that to roughly 410k EHP against Thermal damage. Each Augoror was provided with modules to fit it with a 96k EHP tank against Thermal damage, which gets pumped up to roughly 114k EHP against the same. Perhaps I was incorrect in this fitting concept? Perhaps it was a numbers concern?

Treatle chirps:

I had called for 12-15 Augorors for redundancy reasons, to counter guaranteed ECM. Somehow 75+ sensor strength means, Yes you will get jammed anyways. Unless of course, you're trying to jam someone else with 75+ sensor strength, in which case, all your jams fail?

Thank you for your comments.

Rashar explains:

While there is some element of agreement among us, I mentioned the weapon systems in a general state, and not so much specifically. Since hybrids were pointed out as an example, I shall take a brief moment to elaborate:
4) Hybrids: Fixed damage, tracking concerns our scope, application requires Recons, damage is reduced with range
Hybrids are limited to to Kinetic and Thermal damage. For blasters, those are unsuitable for engagement at 30-40km (typical ♦ Cruiser range, but varies) or around 90-110km (♦ Battleship ranges, roughly). Railguns are not very workable in the same context because they will struggle with the extreme projection concerns of the battleships (and their logistics behind them, which can float about 120-130km range, depending on the circumstances and situation). Then the relatively poor tracking has to be compensated for with tracking computers, bonused target painters and webifiers to counter the afterburners these ships use, which requires Recon pilots, which are in short supply. Finally the range of the target can require people to switch out for long range ammo such as Iridium or Iron, which does weak damage, people may not even be able to lock that far, and other similar concerns. There are other concerns, and this weapon system does work well, but I don't find it to be suitable in this capacity based on my experiences so far. I could as well be entirely wrong, and for that, I would be interested in some enlightenment?

Pine discusses with us:
You may not get as much as you might think out of those skins.

Thanks for your comments, I will read further comments on the morrow!
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Rikali Laru
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Re: [AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

Post by Rikali Laru »

Would like to add my opinion about the over-secrecy. Even if you don't want to give details due to whatever reason, IMHO you have to specify if the activity is PvE. I too didn't attend because I didn't like the cryptic advert, but if I had decided to come, built a battlecruiser that's pretty much not useful to me anywhere else (don't even like the prophecy, only ever got one for CDI), and then learned that it's a FOB fleet that I have no interest in, I'd have been pretty upset.

Good attempt though.
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Re: [AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

Post by Rashar Arji »

Rashar explains:
While there is some element of agreement among us, I mentioned the weapon systems in a general state, and not so much specifically. Since hybrids were pointed out as an example, I shall take a brief moment to elaborate:
4) Hybrids: Fixed damage, tracking concerns our scope, application requires Recons, damage is reduced with range
Hybrids are limited to to Kinetic and Thermal damage. For blasters, those are unsuitable for engagement at 30-40km (typical ♦ Cruiser range, but varies) or around 90-110km (♦ Battleship ranges, roughly). Railguns are not very workable in the same context because they will struggle with the extreme projection concerns of the battleships (and their logistics behind them, which can float about 120-130km range, depending on the circumstances and situation). Then the relatively poor tracking has to be compensated for with tracking computers, bonused target painters and webifiers to counter the afterburners these ships use, which requires Recon pilots, which are in short supply. Finally the range of the target can require people to switch out for long range ammo such as Iridium or Iron, which does weak damage, people may not even be able to lock that far, and other similar concerns. There are other concerns, and this weapon system does work well, but I don't find it to be suitable in this capacity based on my experiences so far. I could as well be entirely wrong, and for that, I would be interested in some enlightenment?
Yes, but there are inconsistencies. You say you talk about the weapons system in a general state yet mention Autocannons specifically. Besides, why do we write AARs? So that we and others can learn from our mistakes or see that "Huh, this thing works". So be careful when lumping things like this together and state what the purpose of fleet is before listing pros and cons as otherwise someone might mistake it for general information.
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Re: [AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

Post by Breeze One »

What Rikali describes is basically what happened to me on this. I know you mentioned a lot on the formup about numbers being lower than usual fleets in that time zone. Hopefully it’s fairly clear by now that the secrecy was a big part of why numbers weren’t as high as you’d like. Yes, if you’d said it was PvE you would probably have lost some PvP players, but you’d have gained a bunch more PvE focused players, and also not annoyed/confused the PvP players who did turn up

I know nothing about FOBs btw, but the only point of advice I want to add (based on your last response) is - it’s not ideal to theorycraft a Uni Fleet based on all 4s as a “average skills”. That’s always going to be a substantial overestimation

This is even more true for a Battlecruiser Fleet, where your Logi tend to be the lower skilled players who can’t fit into the Battlecruiser and grab a Logi in order to join in

For Uni fleets, I have a Test Character on Pyfa with all Magic 14 + BLAP. I use this for estimating “realistic” stats for an average Uni fleet. All 4s is sadly unrealistic - especially for a fleet staging from HSC and doubly so for these larger ship sizes

(This will obviously be an even bigger issue if you do this with Battleships next time by the way - be very careful not to overestimate the amount of skill training people will do just for your fleet)
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Zoltan Irvam
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Re: [AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

Post by Zoltan Irvam »

Hi,

in general the FOBs are currently in a rather sad state - they used to be soloable, were buffed to near impossible on December 5th without upping the rewards and now have been beaten by three groups. There is a thread on the official forums about this. They seem to be bound to be reviewed again by CCP soon, so the question remains if it's worth the trouble...

https://forums.eveonline.com/t/forward- ... tips/48501

https://zkillboard.com/group/1924/

Two groups have done only Gurista - one does them by the dozen and uses 4 extremely blingy Vindicators and a Nestor as logi. This tactics is probably optimal as the number of adversaries scales with the number of players in fleet, so low numbers of very high DPS ships and just enough logi will have considerably less damage incoming than larger groups of lesser ships. They report a payout of 30m per site killed which takes them about 15 minutes plus travel time. Rare BPC drops can give quite a bit more but the faction citadel module BPC dropped are not quick sellers...

https://zkillboard.com/kill/67713284/

The other group with a single Gurista kill used lots of Ravens with Basilisk logi and more Nighthawks than are necessary as OGB plus the odd Gila.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/67625310/

The single Blood Raider FOB kill went to a group of 8 Domninixen with T2 Sentries and a single Nestor logi.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/67625310/

Zoltan
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Hirmuolio Pine
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Re: [AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

Post by Hirmuolio Pine »

And testing on SISI is not an option

"Pirate FOBs and Shipyards are not active on Sisi. They are only active on TQ."

https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-questi ... fried_tahl
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Re: [AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

Post by Hirmuolio Pine »

I just completed the Guristas epic arc and am again in good terms with the Gurisas. They no longer warp away as soon as they see me. So I went and camped the belts with my Vargur.

Killed one hauler and this time got the cruiser response fleet.

They hit much harder than I thought.

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The ♦ Caracals hit with kinetic missiles while the ♦ Gilas hit with thermal missiles.
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