[AAR] 8C12 Aftermath

[Cassiel Seraphim]

They seem to have "bottomless" capacitor, whereby you don't get updated messages indicating how much you've drained. However, they can be neuted out, as seen here:

<image>

First off, it's always super helpful to have your log open when you conduct these tests, so you can see every single line the game throws at you. For example, your screenshot is insufficient to show that you're not getting neuting-feedback ... it only shows the last few lines given to you were attacks from the Thukkers. A log showing that cycle after cycle, you get no messages at all inbetween those attacks, would easily show that though. And if you simply missed it, the log would show the neuting-feedback that is otherwise "scrolled off" screen by the attacks.

Also, are you using Blood Raider ships with sureshot cap drains no matter the relative capacitor capacity? That's otherwise an easy way to mess up that test.

[Hirmuolio Pine]

Easier to get the stats from http://playground.schildwall.info/basics/npcattributes/

The ESI gives them in "attribute ID, value" pairs and then you need to check the name of each attribute ID one by one to make any sense of it.

http://playground.schildwall.info/basic ... =PutIdHere

[Cassiel Seraphim]

Aye, used to be Chruker's but that one doesn't seem to be updated anymore, so I guess schildwall is the successor for that type of information

I still prefer ESI (in combination with my own SQL) as I can easily fetch NPC data on the fly without having to rely on third party sites being up to date or not.

[K950]

They seem to have "bottomless" capacitor, whereby you don't get updated messages indicating how much you've drained. However, they can be neuted out, as seen here:

<image>

First off, it's always super helpful to have your log open when you conduct these tests, so you can see every single line the game throws at you. For example, your screenshot is insufficient to show that you're not getting neuting-feedback ... it only shows the last few lines given to you were attacks from the Thukkers. A log showing that cycle after cycle, you get no messages at all inbetween those attacks, would easily show that though. And if you simply missed it, the log would show the neuting-feedback that is otherwise "scrolled off" screen by the attacks.

Also, are you using Blood Raider ships with sureshot cap drains no matter the relative capacitor capacity? That's otherwise an easy way to mess up that test.

The updates for neuting amount neutralized doesn't work on the new NPCs. If I slap a Slasher with 600GJ worth of a heavy neut, then follow up immediately thereafter with a second heavy neut, it will still show 600 GJ neutralized. It's broken.

You see that there are 3 Scythes on my Dscan, but there's only one on grid. No way I could break a Slasher into armor with 3 Scythes on grid. But if 2 Scythes were neuted out, I can shoot the third, and whittle it down to one Scythe...

It's a Rattlesnake. I can assure you that the webs and scram are mostly persistent, but in highsec they drop the tackle every once in awhile. In null, from what i can tell, they don't. Feel free to test yourself if you don't believe me: There are Thukker stations near 6-C, so hop on the test server with some silly Bhaalgorn fit, and poke around the systems.

[Cassiel Seraphim]

Feel free to test yourself if you don't believe me:

I was trying to impart some more context for your testing, so you don't risk leaping to premature conclusions ... or worse, erroneous ones. EVE is full of misconceptions because a lot of players look only to validate the result they are looking for, instead of ruling out other reasons for your potential false positive.

For example, there's so much more to it than merely testing if neuting out two scythes will allow you to break the third etc.

- What were the distances between them? Did you rule out diminishing returns from range? Perhaps your webbing pushed one of them out of optimal range. Check their relative position to each other, not just to you (ie, two enemies 18km from you could be 36km away from each other, with you in the middle).
- Did you check if they cap themselves out anyway after prolonged excessive repping? Perhaps CCP added such a functionality and that's why you broke them.
- Where other targets shot as well, splitting the attention of the scythes? Perhaps it was repping something else.

And that's just some immediate questions that you seem to have glossed over, based on what you've said so far (perhaps you checked more than you're telling us, but I can only respond to what you've been saying). Point is, just because your action has a certain result in a particular case, doesn't mean you're done testing. That's just the first step, to get an expected result from a certain action. To verify a mechanics, you'll need to rule out that it can't happen normally, or for some other reason than the obvious.

Quickly looking at the scythes on schildwall for example, does show that CCP has started adding new behaviorXXX attributes to the new NPCs, one of which is a discharge-attribute for the remote repairs. This could very well explain the results you're seeing K9, why their ability to rep might be subjective to neuting while nothing else is (since they have no modules, it has to be specifically added to simulate non-exiting modules turning off) ... but depending on the implementation, it could also be that they simply cap themselves out in the long run. So without testing that, it's still a bit premature to call it a day.

Anyway, I was just trying to help you see potential flaws in the way you seem to test things and warn you of the inherent risks of perpetuating the spread of premature conclusions about game mechanics.