A two-part Dragonslayer vs Hitmen

[Decklin Quark Reiger]

Background:
- The Socket was Closed [HTMAN] alliance (Hitmen) have moved in to Iges recently (roughly since November)
- Hitmen tend to hunt around the Aulbres - Alperaute pipe, as well as through the Covryn, Iges, Dastryns, Uphallant area, as well as further towards Black Rise
- They have a taste for flying fast pirate cruisers, T3 cruisers, and will occasionally drop a carrier as well.
- In general they tend to have a fairly .. shall we say, 'conservative' approach to fights - generally being happy to prey on weak or lone targets, and either run away or drop capitals very quickly when facing strong opposition.
- When they did lose expensive ships, Hitmen retaliated by declaring war on the uni, and looking for further weak targets of opportunity in our high sec campus, and around the Stacmon trade hub.


Preparation & Diplomacy:
- a number of the local groups in Placid wanted to team up to try to kill some of the Hitmen capitals, but lacked the firepower to do so individually.
- having engaged in 'frenemy' activity with some of these groups, they reached out to myself and Kora K to see if we could participate. However, at the time, the Uni rules prohibited us from attacking the Raitaru without director approval.
- Recently, the uni rules have changed on a trial basis, allowing us to participate in structure battles against groups which have been set to a negative standing to the Uni. This included the Hitmen since they declared war on us previously.
- A core group of pilots from multiple corporations hatched a plan to attack the Hitmen Raitaru in Iges, drawing out the Hitmen capitals, killing as many as we could, and ideally destroying the Raitaru as well.
- We chose an armour doctrine to support the capitals that we had available, and to let us have passive tank that could stand up to neut pressure from the Raitaru.


The Poco ruse:
- At the same time as these preparations, other operations had been planned involving CFT Pocos, both in the NSC pocket, and the LSC area.
- Those operations were unrelated but provided a reasonable-sounding cover to have a Dragonslayer fleet staging from Stacmon.


FC Objectives:
Primary:
- Bait out the Hitmen capitals and kill as many as we could (we anticipated 3-4, including 2 carriers, a dreadnought, and a fax)

Secondary:
- (Day One - Saturday) Reinforce the Raitaru's shields
- (Day Two - Sunday) Reinforce the Raitaru's armour
- (Following week) Destroy the Raitaru

Always:
- Have fun, keep learning and teaching!


Day One - Local Placid groups kill a Hitmen Moros:
- on the first day, we formed the subcap fleet into two groups - the 'Rock' and the 'Hard Place'.
- The 'Rock' squad was uni-only, and consisted of 16 Hurricanes, 4 Augorors, and 1 interceptor. Enough to reinforce the Raitaru, and hold reps against it. Not enough to look dangerous for the Hitmen capitals. All the Griffins were kept hidden in Stacmon, with the other parties staging in nearby systems, docked up.
- we kept cloaky eyes in other nearby systems to watch for potential capital escalation from third parties.
- As the Raitaru shields wore down, the Hitmen logged in with about 10 pilots, and they quickly scouted out the surrounding systems. We didn't have any ships in space for them to see, although of course they could see pilots in local.
- Our hurricane 'Rock' gang was just reaching the DPS cap on the Raitaru, and was able to comfortably hold reps against it. The Hitmen kept their pirate cruisers tethered.
- When the Raitaru reached about 15% shield, the Hitmen warped in 4 capitals - a Moros, Chimera, and two Thanatos(es) ?
- Union in his interceptor got a point on the Moros, and our cyno pilot was able to warp in to Union. There was a moment where collectively we realised that we were woefully lacking tackle, in order to catch the caps and hold them.
- When we had the Moros tackled, I called for the 'Hard Place' squad to join us, and for our own caps (a Moros, Apostle and Thanatos) to arrive via the cyno.
- The Hitmen carriers quickly scattered, since we didn't have enough tackle to grab them.
- We killed the Moros fairly quickly, even before all of the 'Hard Place' squad had managed to arrive.
- We protected the cyno ships and had a brief moment where each of the different friendly parties had to double check that nobody was shooting each other.
- After our friendly capitals and cyno ships had disengaged, we left the field and saved our ships for the following day, knowing that we would need to bring extra tackle for the next day.

Battle report:
https://br.inyour.space/?s=3796&b=7938000&e=60&t=eav

Killed: 3.06b
Lost: 1.21b
Efficiency: 71.7%


Day Two - 3 caps traded for 3 caps:
- Hitmen were set up about 30km off the Slays gate in Iges, which is on-grid with their Raitaru. They were aligned back towards their engineering complex.
- They had their two Thanatos, 1 Chimera and 1 Moros showing, along with 8-10 subcaps for support
- we got even more pilots this time, including several more capitals.
- This time all of the subcap pilots went in together, intending to quickly tackle all of the capitals, light cynos, and bring in our capitals to destroy them.
- We jumped in to Iges, and I took advantage of the 60s cloak to give as clear instructions as I could to the fleet, and we went for it.
- We did tackle 3 of their carriers, but their Moros killed a Hurricane and warped off.
- We very quickly killed all three carriers, as well as the few cruisers that we managed to tackle.
- Just as our subcap fleet warped to the Raitaru and started to attack the armour, Hitmen managed to get their own cyno on to our capitals. We killed the first cyno ship (a Velator) before any capitals came through, but their second cyno ship, a Prophecy, managed to bring in bring in their own batphone: LowSechnaya Sholupen allaince [-LSH-].
- They had 4 Phoenixes, 2 Moros, 2 Naglfars, and 2 Force Auxiliaries. I was quickly trying to assess the situation - should we try to fight this? did we have a chance? How many of our own caps can we disengage?
- Very quickly I realised there was no way we could fight it, so called for us to align out and disengage. Several of the capitals from our side of the battle did successfully disengage, but some were also caught.
- Once our subcap fleet was off grid, I tried to assess whether we could successfully reinforce the Raitaru, in order to get a round 3 the following week. We talked briefly in the command channel about whether this was possible or not, and then I decided to try.
- I accidentally warped myself back to the structure alone, instead of warping the fleet. When the fleet did land, some of our logi got separated from the main bulk of the fleet, and tackled by the Hitmen cruisers and T3Ds. I was also tackled and neuted by the Raitaru, so was unable to join the fleet as it warped on to the Raitaru with less than a minute left on the repair timer.
- At this point, the LowSechnaya group had disengaged.
- I quickly lost my own ship, and Kora took over as we attempted to take out the Raitaru's armour.
- While I was reshipping, the LowSechnaya capitals returned.
- In hindsight, it seems the logi group was still unable to re-establish their cap chain, and we were losing ships very rapidly.
- I got back on grid just in time to see what was happening, lose my ship, and call for the fleet to disengage.

Battle Report:
https://br.inyour.space/?s=3796&b=7939440&e=90&t=uarb

Killed: 8.11b
Lost: 13.83b
Efficiency: 37%


Objectives met?:
We did achieve the primary objective of destroying several Hitmen capitals, but we did not meet the secondary objective of destroying the Raitaru. We also lost more than we really wanted to.

A lot of people had a lot of fun doing something different than what we usually do.

Learning:

What went well:
- The initial 'Rock' and 'Hard Place' tactic successfully drew out their capitals for a fight on day one.
- Hitmen appeared to be unaware of our plans to attack the Raitaru, so our 'opsec' plan appears to have been intact. However, the 'ruse' raised some internal concerns about fighting against CFT, who at that point were winning the POCO skirmishes.
- Coordinating with other local groups was successful, with positive diplomatic outcomes in terms of relationship building. We'll continue to shoot each other as much as we can of course
- The FC team got to plan and learn about structure warfare, capital escalations, and diplomacy.


What went not so well:
- On day one, we didn't have enough tackle. We didn't plan this transition from 'bait' to 'drop the hammer' as well as we could. We did do a much better job of this on day two.
- Although we did anticipate that Hitmen would arrange their own batphone of some sort, we underestimated what that could look like, and didn't plan our own counter-counter-escalation for day two.
- Deciding to take the subcap fleet back on-grid to try to reinforce the Raitaru didn't work. In part, this was because I messed up the fleet warp, and logi got separated. In part it was because logi then tried to slow-boat back together. But mostly it was because we were simply out-gunned, and should have disengaged at that point. It felt really bad leaving our friendly caps tackled on grid, though.


Thank you:
A huge thank you to the rest of the FC team, Kora K, Breeze One and Tiberius Auduin - you guys put a lot of preparation, coordination and logistics in to this operation. Thank you as well to our local frenemies James Gabel, Captain JDD, Brisecul Anne & co, as well as A Band Apart and La Division Bleue. See you in space, on both sides of the turrets

o7

[geldy]

I had fun first real big FLeet battle bring on more

[Turlough Dominian]

Good operation
Things went well and things not so well but lots of learning and experience was gained I managed to come for day 1 but slept it for day 2 sadly

As war targets go well suppose can say previous wartargets I liked these guys they brought fights and took engagements that other war targets would not normally do, much respect for them better than those station / trade hub types for sure

[JohnPlayerNotSpecial]

Day1: first they shot our anchor, then the two ships that were boosting (ersin & me). We didnt have enough logi on grid at that point. When the rest of the fleet came it went okay (dunno really, was reshipping ).

Day2: After reengaging onto the raitaru, logi was positioned in between the DD & their fleet and got popped one by one. Then the fleet started bleeding everything.

Logi is not an easy thing, so hats off for the guys trying. Still, maybe we need more classes and/or experience opportunities for aspiring logi pilots ?

[Breeze One]

Was a really fun time, and a nice change from our usual fleet activities. Planning it with the FC team was a fantastic learning experience by itself! Many improvements for next time, but we didn't do too badly for the first LSC structure assault in....ever?

In the end, they just had bigger friends unfortunately

Special thanks not just to Tiberius, Kora, and Decklin (particularly for volunteering as FC!) but also Glen and Bora who supported our crazy idea through it all

Many, many thanks to everyone who undocked and came out to welp some ships! Hope to see you all next time! Because there HAS to be a next time right?

[LeFleur]

Day one: I was part of A Hard Place with my auguror, We came into system in time to establish our cap chain in the fight site and then warp of with the rest of the fleet.

I didn't get much to do but picked a great pointer, the kind of pointer that makes you say "why didn't I think about it?" Augurors have 5 highs, and normally are contracted as 3 repairers and 2 energy transference. The trick is simple, change it to Repairer-Energy-Repairer-Energy-Repairer. Because you are going to overheat repairers and not energy transference modules it makes perfect sense. I shared this with Ersin and we are going to pas it on HSCers to help them understand the mechanic involved.

Day Two: We had so many logi we made 2 auguror chains. We failed in informing people to get out of the minichat logi window when they go down, so that the chain can autocorrect. This was the start of our WOes, as more attention was needed for the cap chain, taking that attention from positioning and watchlist and fleet history.

At one point we were so disorganized because some people followed the fleet while others went for bookmarks, making even the coordination and repairs between logi difficult. It was then than a genially correct decision was made to warp us out 180 KM and return. Sadly the return point wasn't optimal, but the thinking was flawless.

We started repairing people, but under the fighters of the carriers that were focusing fire we couldn't hold reps. We managed to save some and get them back to operating status when they decided to change primary, but we lost several that we targeted as soon as it was informed in a broadcast to find them in mid armor, and perhaps a single rep would land before the structure was completely gone. The speed of the damage was astounding. It was not near alphaed level but it was close.

It was higly chaotic, but I must say I enjoyed it a lot. Also knowing our primary objective completed made me happier. All I could complain about is that the auguror survived yet another battle and it's getting quite dirty.

One thing I noticed was that although we were two logi groups, we weren't two different squads in fleet, and this might have limited the options of the commanders.

[Jeracho Dorne]

Great to be part of this. Eve Uni really showed ambition with this event. And we all got great learning out of it. E-Uni working with smaller persecuted groups to take on the bad guys? Sounds like what E-Uni is made for.

Well organised FCs and the other officers involved in planning this. And thanks from me without you guys there's no content.

[Catbriar Saissore]

Those are very interesting reads above on the background and strategy. Let me add a perspective from the bottom of the food (command) chain. I have attempted logistics in a couple of fleets now. Today was the third time I have been killed. The most consistent factor in my demise has been getting separated from fleet. I did note one of the other deceased was a new player who also got separated from fleet.
Logistics is not easy, there is a lot going on and windows to watch on the screen. There is also a lot of set up and game mechanics involved. The squad leaders make a herculean effort to organize and instruct just before fleet launches. I have also found the squad leaders willing to talk after fleet and provide more instruction. My comment is that there is a lot of simple mechanics that could be taught prior to any fleet action. My recommendation is long before fleet, just on a pick up basis, or maybe a forum post, get the new people out in logistics (or any other) ships and go through the mechanics.
Picking from a post above: “We failed in informing people to get out of the minichat logi window when they go down, so that the chain can autocorrect.” A perfect example of something to know going in.
We did have a discussion after today’s fleet and the idea of a class was raised. I am a little more inclined toward just getting a few people together in space in ships for those of us with busy schedules. Anyways, that was my thought from today.
Commenting on above: “change it to Repairer-Energy-Repairer-Energy-Repairer. Because you are going to overheat repairers and not energy transference modules it makes perfect sense. I shared this with Ersin and we are going to pas it on HSCers” The Augis I have purchased at Amy had this configuration. As an aside, I did go to contracts to buy a new Augi but there were none available.
That was a fun fleet, look forward to the next one.

[Laura Karpinski]

Nice kills, guys. Great job. Listened in on the first day, but also slept through the second day - doh!

I suspect there may have been a few more people on the first day if not for the cover story. It did seem to preserve the element of surprise, but I did also see a fair few people saying they would not or did not attend because of what they thought it was going to be

Glad the new structure rules trial has allowed people to have a more accessible taste of this type of content.

[Nelliver Cadigal]

Well, that was an experience, was it not. On day one I accidentally got logi command because all available logi pilots (including myself) stated their experience with Logi was "sort of". On day two I should have handed over to Laser but my brain did not pass the message through that he was much more experienced and suited to the job. But I learned a lot and it was nice to see a big fleet in action. Will probably do this again (if I am allowed) but try to get more experience in fleet logi.
A thanks to all involved!

[Michael Alderman]

Indeed, the cover story had its high and low points. It worked and opsec was preserved (as far as I can see). Even I and some other officers had no idea what was really going to happen. It did most likely cost some participation. Not sure how this could be done differently, or the cover changed, to not get the negative effect. The last large fleet action was easy to guess as soon as you saw the schedule for it, and there was no misdirection to fool people. How best to handle that sort of thing, I'm not sure. But then, I am a terrible liar, so I'm not the best person to ask.

Sometimes I wonder if newbie logi might not be better off in an Exequror to avoid the cap chain confusion. Sometimes. It occurs to me, as an aside, that maybe "badges" could be awarded for various roles like logi and such based on training taken (and passed), and experience. Perhaps granted after demonstrating mastery of the essential skills. We would have a pool of those qualified for Augs for those, and newer ones in Exequrors. Well, still working on my first coffee of the day, so it might be a stupid idea. But the cap chain is only as strong as its weakest link. hehe

All in all, looks like a very interesting operation. Wish I had been there, but a combination of factors like my EVE client being crashy on the first day until I fixed it, finally, and the time it occurred at being brutal in my time zone, meant I wasn't really able to attend. But very glad people had some fun. You all got to be in a fleet with capital ships on both sides, which isn't something we get to do every day.

Hope someone recorded some video!

[Budda Sereda]

Sometimes I wonder if newbie logi might not be better off in an Exequror to avoid the cap chain confusion. Sometimes. It occurs to me, as an aside, that maybe "badges" could be awarded for various roles like logi and such based on training taken (and passed), and experience.

I hope people are aware of LSC Logy Initiative: https://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtop ... 14&t=99086 you can get up to T2 logy cruiser... Good incentive I guess.

Good fight for me, unfortunately could not join the day 1.

On day 2 was flying Malediction. Had 2 issues which I would like to share with other and ask for advice:

1. In the first engagement (on the gate), I was trying to 'tackle 4 capitals' with 2 tackle modules. The biggest issue was to find proper ships in a list. I don't know how pros do that, but I really needed to spend lots of time to stay out of Caracals range and find that capital to scram/point.
Should I have a separate tab for capital ship in the overview?

2. In the 2nd engagement (trying to reinforce the Raitaru 2nd time), I did not really have anything to do in my Malediction as DDs were focusing on the structure.
I've noticed quite a few T3Ds and thought that I could try shooting Hecate from the safe range (I had light missiles) and at least push him from the grid. Soon, I've noticed that it is not only my who applies damage, but they were getting reps. I also was catching reps from some logibros so I came closer to scram and slow Hecate down. It helped and we killed it.
2nd was Svipul, but this time logies did not rep me and I was shot quickly.
Lesson to learn: don't commit in a paper thing tackle ship without FC asking and logy supporting you.

Question to Decklin/Kora: why did not we try cleaning small stuff from the grid earlier? If we reduced DPS, would Raitaru be able to repair through the small DPS?
I understand that strategically that fight was not about killing ships, yet removing small ships from grid would make logies life a bit easier.

[Budda Sereda]

Question to Decklin/Kora: why did not we try cleaning small stuff from the grid earlier? If we reduced DPS, would Raitaru be able to repair through the small DPS?
I understand that strategically that fight was not about killing ships, yet removing small ships from grid would make logies life a bit easier.

Looking through kills, I can assume that T3Ds were on grid more for tackle rather than for DPS... yet, so pesky and annoying...

[Baro Gaar]

Sorry I could not attend, the timers were at a terrible hour and in conflict with my rl obligations. I'm positive to see that my Cap alt might even have a place in E-Uni. Let me share some comments:

So, the 10 first seconds of this video comes to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb4i52HB0dQ

The phrase has been ridiculed many times, but it has a brutal truth to it.

As for tackle, I see tackle being a constant issue within E-Uni. I'm no authority myself, last time I scouted I got melted by a T1 frigate. But I point out that there's an issue, we lose too many tackle or the tackle fail. Training is the key I believe, a ceptor can be easily destroyed or incapacitated by many ships, we all need to learn which ones. Ceptor fleets like what Kora did yesterday is good I believe. "Heavy tackle" focus, the AF and HAC changes needs to be focused on.

The roles in fleets are sometimes handled upside down. The easiest job is to be the target caller and DD anchor, still it's usually handled by the most experienced FC. Being the scout/ tackle is a tough job, often given to the new guys because they can't fly the DD doctrine. Logi anchor is probably the hardest job of all, because you need most situational awareness of all the ships on grid. Remember this when you volunteer. DD misplaced on grid, ok you can't hit anything for a minute. Logi misplaced---> welp fleet!!

Budda: When I need to target specific ships I sort the overview by alphabet. In some situations where you shave a specific job you can make a specific overview tab, but usually it's easier to just go for ship types.

Stop focusing on Killboards and isk efficiency, let's make sure people are having fun. This operation is probably one of the bravest in E-Uni history, let's have more of these. Kudos to Decklin and Kora!!

[Troven Smalvard]

Should I have a separate tab for capital ship in the overview?

Easy after the fact but yes using multiple overviews certainly helps as well as sorting by type like Baro suggests. being a support role you can't rely on broadcasts for you own targets
In the heat of the moment any little helps

When fly recons on BB fleets i'll have a fighter tab a cap tab and a anti tackle tab as well as a normal PVP.
Not saying i always use them to greatest efficiency but having them to switch between for jamming fighters then finding other ships when FC calls grid change.
Similar i have diff PVP tabs {and lots of diff dscan sets} when i'm hunting in WH vs LSC fleets, takes a while to tinker to you're tastes but worth it in the long run.
While EUNI overview is great for starters into corp to learn basics and certainly things like spotting WT's etc having bespoke when you know where you want to specialise has made no end of difference to me.


That said I know Deck and Breeze are helping to look at the Euni overview and make some updates for all in the near future, not necessarily aimed at you as i know how adaptable you all are but as a general comment to newer unistas reading, learning how and why to make changes form the set options will leave you in a better spot in the long run than relying on uni wide updates


EDIT: forgot, awesome job guys ,
again combining campuses, friendly corps, AND CAPS!! is a great undertaking, big props for extending yourselves again!
testament to the work you guys doing daily generally in LSC and FCC that you had enough people to manage the planning and support needed for this