[AAR] HSC Sleepers Death Squad (WH) - 31/01/2018

[Willow K]

HSC Sleepers Death Squad

Yesterday morning, we were sitting at Citadel-101 and we were thinking, what we can do that we haven’t done, so we decide to give a spin at Sleepers Combat sites at a WH. We scanned down a local C3 and we found 2 Sleepers combat sites and 4 gas sites.

We regrouped after few hours when enough people were online and we formed a fleet, the information, we had about sleepers were limited, as nobody from fleet, ever encounterer sleepers before. Wiki was our only friend.

I chose, we go with shield doctrine as my Hurricane was shield, so we fleet up 3 battlecruisers, 2 caracals and 3 ospreys. Things went sideways very fast, on the first sleeper site, as one of our logi went boom. We cleared couple waves and we warp out to regroup and reship.

Second attempt with same composition, it went exactly the same, into less than 60 seconds, an Osprey was down. It seemed that wasn’t possible for the Logi team to keep up with the incoming damage to them as sleepers were targeting our Logi Team non-stop, so warp out and back to WH Exit, to re-think our strategy.

Our only experienced member, Ersin suggested to switch to Armor Doctrine, so we did and we changed our composition to 4 Vexors and 4 Augorors, it seemed having 4 Logistics than 3, was the key to hold all incoming fire to us at bay.

After that, everything seemed to be clicking the right way and we cleared both Sleepers Combat sites and the rats from the 4 Gas sites.

As morale were high to manage to clear everything, we decided to switch to mining fleet so we grabbed our Venture’s and back to WH to extract as much as possible Gas. Everything went according to plan and we came back out alive, even the WH was critical at the end.

I would like to give some extra love to:
Airsick Lowlander than scanned every site in the WH before the fleet was formed so we had all information ready when we went into it.
Ersin Oghuz that helped me with FCing, giving the tip for the armor doctrine and him running Logistics Commander and kept Logistics on top of the game with Augorors.

We had a small accident too, losing an Asterio that got de-cloaked near sleepers and took him down instantly but that is part of learning process.

At the end, I would like to thank everyone that came to the fleet and everyone was ready not to come back alive but we did come back alive. Also all the WH persons, we had with us that explained to everyone about GAS sites, as it was a lot of new information for me.

Losses: 130m
Loot: 480m

Few Notes:
I have heard a lot that logistics are not fun because, you don’t shoot. Logistics is the backbone of a fleet, if this is PVE or PVP. A good logistics team can keep a fleet alive even the opponent is better shipped so I would ask kindly everyone to train, so can fly at least T1 Shield & Armor Logistics, It is very easy with skills and make everything easier for any fleet.

Check: BLAP Logistics

Sleepers Fleet:
Willow K - FC / Vexor
Ersin Oghuz - LC / Augoror
Airsick Lowlander - Logi / Augoror
Bethany Cartharsis - Logi / Augoror
Merchaan Gaterau - Logi / Augoror
Owen Armel - Vexor / DD
Splodge Ernaga - Vexor / DD
Kris Hawk - Vexor / DD

Kranamor Andedare - Vexor / DD (didnt stay until the end)
O'Hearn - Salvager (in the first sleeper combat site)

Mining Fleet:
Airsick Lowlander - Scouter
Bethany Cartharsis - Bodyguard
Willow K - FC / Miner
Kris Hawk - Miner
Merchaan Gaterau - Miner
Owen Armel - Miner
Splodge Ernaga - Miner
Rose Macabre - Miner (joined at the end for extra cargo)

I will run this fleet weekly, so keep an eye.

Sign out....
HSC Sleepers Death Squad FC

[Airsick Lowlander]

I found this fleet to be a pretty big eye opener to how enjoyable PvE content, like mining or killing the rats can be when you're together with friends. Even with some research before hand into Sleeper Sites, it seemed like we were learning together how to best approach it, and while we had some mistakes (I died for example on logi Osprey before we reshipped, due to trying to balance the priority of being aligned to warp out with keeping in range of the fleet, after the fact I thought it might be best to align then stop ship, but I don't know if this is a good idea). I think Willow did a great job and Ersin as 2ic, and big thanks to everyone doing the mining, salvaging and keeping it isk positive.

I'm glad we didn't get lost, and it seemed like a lot of people maybe shy away from wormholes because they're intimidating, but I think we did a great job with managing the deterioration of the WH near the end, in the beginning, we went through as a group to reship often, this definitely shrank the wormhole, but maybe it's best to do for safety.

I think if we went in with the Armor Doctrine from the beginning and enough Logi, we would have a much easier time and maybe not lose any ships. Also, in future if we find a good wormhole for gas in the immediate area of Amy I will scan down deep for exits, as this was mainly what I was doing while everyone was mining - We had a lot of Lowsec connections, including one near Solitude. Comms were good, and people were on the ball with D-Scan, which is good practice.

Question:: Should we guard entrance and watch dscan/ combat probes or all pile through every time someone has to reship?

I had a great time and am looking forward to more. o7.

p.s. I think this sort of thing can be really good for getting the hang of Logi, and general small gang stuff for folks like me who are still new to fleets.

[Ersin Oghuz]

Good summary and write up Willow, thank you for organizing it and leading it.

Before being asked I need to state this; the wormhole system does not have any kind of effect and it was Class 3 system. So shield were definetly not getting any negative side effects. I don't remember being in an Osprey before so I cannot comment on it very detailly, but to me it seems it has less tank then Augoror on paper if I am not mistaken. So I believe those things contributed the losses :

#01 : Low overall HP : Ospreys could not hold incoming damage until the repairs arrive (check #02)
#02 : Inexperience, Slow Reaction Time : It was a newbro fleet and logistics is always a bit tricky and stresful, a bit of latency on locking and landing repairs can lead to loss of a ship
#03 : Low resists and possible inactive modules: I saw one Osprey was shields down in 2 hits which is very fast. I wonder if all activate their shield invulnarability fields.

All of above contributed to the losses I believe. After that since I am bit more experienced in armor logistics I suggested FC, Willow to change into Armor doctrine since;
#01 : I could get in Augoror instead of Combat ship and help the logistics
#02 : Armor repairs lands at the end of the cycle HOWEVER, the damage on shield is a warning sign (actually being targeted is the warning sign, but since this was almost all newbro fleet people can miss being yellow boxed on overview) so they can broadcast and logistics can start repairing the armor.
#03 : Better resists and tank on Augorors overall.

We were back to Amynon and since BLAP Vexors & Augorors are somewhat more common in HSC, we reshipped into Vexors and Augorors and this time we had 4 logistics and rest was DD.

I can say we hold much better. I even got DCed due to blackout in my neighbourhood for a minute and then when I came back I was very satisfied with the logistics holding very nicely. They did rebuild the capacitor chain quickly and overheated repairs and hardeners. Very good job indeed!

Willow was also good in FCing. He tagged the targets so DD squad could focus fire and sweep the field faster. He was also checking the site contents before we warp in to check what can tackle and etc so we could focus on tackling ships to eliminate them first which saved my Myrmidon on the first shield fleet! That is also the result of following commands by fleet members. They followed tags and primaries after a little bit orientation period!

Astero loss was somewhat shocking, we tried to repair him but Astero's tank vs Sleepers is not good enough sadly. Always check in ith your FC before warping to sleeper site and learn the situation. And warping at range cloaked will help you.

So, overall, it was fun and educational. I also shared some W-R ISK making secrets in fleet and I believe that attracted people for future ops (more asteros to hunt! )

ADDITION: To whom think logistics is a bit of light and boring task, try to fly a logistics once, you will see how intense it is. You need to keep eye on
- the cap chain
- fleet anchor & movement
- fleet broadcasts
- your own ships integrity & incoming fire
- overheating your modules when needed
...

[Bethany Cartharsis]

This was a great fleet and overall a terrific experience. Performing logi in both doctrines so close together in time helped me to see the pro's and con's of each. As Ersin stated, an armor doctrine fleet is much more newbro friendly when it comes to logi. Having a bigger tank is also more forgiving on logi. Communication and teamwork was excellent on this fleet from my perspective, everyone worked together very well. Situational awareness is key and something I personally am still working to improve. Something I noticed while performing the logi role, having drones of the opposite doctrine (e.g. armor drones for shield fleet) is super helpful, especially in the armor doctrine fleet. It allowed the chance to rebuild that cushion that makes armor so much easier to rep as a newbro.

[Merchaan Gaterau]

I'd like to thank Willow for setting it up and Ersin for commanding our logi squad. I had a great time learning a new role and got more wh experience in a safer fashion.

Being my first time in a logi ship it was a great learning experience and, as Ersin said, it was very intense. Cap chain was easy for me once I knew how to set it up, watching for who needed reps was tense but just required attention, knowing when to overheat(and when not to) is something I'm still uncertain about even after the fleet folded.

I just looked at the T1 Osprey vs T1 Augoror and(skills may change this) the Augoror is tankier plus can afford to lose shields and I think this made a big difference to our survivability after reshipping. I would absolutely bill the Augoror as a better new logi ship as even when we were down to three, after Ersins DC, we still kept up with the incoming damage. I'd also second Bethany's suggestion to bring drones opposite of the reppers since that extra cushion provided more warning to the logi as well.

The gas sites were quieter(after the sleepers) but the extra ISK was a nice bonus to a fun experience so thanks to all who came with us.

Also, sleepers HATE logi and salvagers, just thought you should know

[O'Hearn]

Also, sleepers HATE logi and salvagers, just thought you should know

And salvage. Sleepers hate salvage.

I got prio'd 3 times. The first time made sense to me: FC called for align and I was the only person who aligned, so I landed first. But the next 2 times, they were just being mean.

[Owen Armel]

I think this fleet was the one that i had the most fun until now. I liked how did multiple things here. Not only the sleeper sites and following that the rat clean up of the gas sites. Also the following gas mining was fun and because we killed all the sleeper drones we had all the time to mine. We all did different things during the runtime of the fleet. Also one of the fun parts was that the Wormhole was in danger of collapsing due to the passage of the ships from amy to wh space. We where making plans, while we mined, what to do if it collapsed. So it was very fun for me. We did different things during the fleet and not only one thing. I would like it very much if we did something like that again. During the runtime of the fleet we can do different things, battle action, hacking, scouting, exploring, etc. I think we did nearly all thing that you can do in eve during this fleet. Also it promotes team work, always a plus.

[Zana Fehrnah]

Great writeup, I'm sure it has brought some new experience for HSC members.

As a WHC member I'd like to add a few things:

1) Check our rasharing doctrine - https://fleet-up.com/Doctrine/Item/22388, it's meant to run C3 and C4 combat sites, 2 ospreys should be enough for C3s. With this fleet your BCs can just slowly burn around the sleeper structure while the first thing ospreys should do is to gain transversal and then orbit BCs with their AB on at their optimals. Since BCs take a little bit longer to train into you could replace those with t2 tanked cruisers, but then your logi should react to incoming damage much quicker.

2) Answering Airsick's question:

Question: Should we guard entrance and watch dscan/ combat probes or all pile through every time someone has to reship?

- no need to put all that mass throught the wh back and forth, anything larger than a cruiser should have enough ehp to tank gankers until the cavalry arrives. Protip: wartargets never visit wormhole space.

[Willow K]

Great writeup, I'm sure it has brought some new experience for HSC members.

As a WHC member I'd like to add a few things:

1) Check our rasharing doctrine - https://fleet-up.com/Doctrine/Item/22388, it's meant to run C3 and C4 combat sites, 2 ospreys should be enough for C3s. With this fleet your BCs can just slowly burn around the sleeper structure while the first thing ospreys should do is to gain transversal and then orbit BCs with their AB on at their optimals. Since BCs take a little bit longer to train into you could replace those with t2 tanked cruisers, but then your logi should react to incoming damage much quicker.

Thanks for dropping by to give us tips and thanks for the good words.

I checked your doctrine and it is very good but we are T1 pilots (newbro) thats why we need 4 augorors to tank C3 Sleepers, i hope soon, we can ugprade to T2 and can run your doctrine!