[NPSI] Roam into Horde Space w/ Spectre Fleet

[Budda Sereda]

I guess, sometimes you do whelp half of the fleet... Is this something the every FC need to experience to become more mature? Not mandatorily I guess, but even though ISK wise fleet appeared to be solid, there were quite a few unpleasant moments.

We started VERY well, around 30 pilots undocked from Stacmon. We had 4 logies, 3 scouts (few more joined later), CD. Around 10-15 pilots joined while we were in space.

1st we killed wondering pod which decloaked on a gate. I was so skeptical about it and did not want to hold fleet 1 minute to kill it, but somebody asked, I called it and here we go:
Capsule +834.8m
LOL

We found nothing till we hit null. It was interesting roaming with content here and there ...

(03:41:34) F7C-H0
Federation Navy Comet +36.31m
Capsule +0.01m
Mobile Medium Warp Disruptor I +2.9m

(03:51:16) O-ZXUV
Atron +3.35m
Capsule +0.01m

(04:02:08) 5S-KNL
Vexor Navy Issue +100.48m

(04:08:54) 5S-KNL
Hurricane +86.16m

I guy was killed trying to join us. In null traveling solo in a logy ship is rarely a good idea: getter pick combat ceptor next time.
(04:21:10) O-ZXUV
Deacon -41.23m
Capsule -0.01m

We were followed by the dozen of Svipuls gangs, run away from them successfully, eventually came to the desto... and were met by a few dozens.

I realized it will be hard for us to engage and I guess made a first mistake: instead of running away out of the Horde's back pocket, I've tried to go deeper to shoot their ratters.

We killed two (hehe), but it was not worth trying. We kept been followed by gang of few dozens of Svipuls with quite a few dictors...

(04:32:21) C4C-Z4, GME-PQ, MPPA-A, L-C3O7
Punisher -13.04m
Caracal +39.83m
Federation Navy Comet -26.15m
Deacon -56.8m
Federation Navy Comet -27.62m
Federation Navy Comet -35.31m
Incursus -4.3m
Vexor Navy Issue +83.75m
Crucifier Navy Issue -54.7m
Federation Navy Comet -31.19m
Federation Navy Comet -37.79m
Federation Navy Comet -51.66m
Algos -6.53m
Condor -2.57m
Griffin -1.41m
Punisher -11.4m
Griffin -2.89m
Inquisitor -9.12m
Federation Navy Comet -41.66m
Federation Navy Comet -51.69m
Incursus -4.03m
Federation Navy Comet -29.6m

Who has been in the fleet that had a chance to learn how to run away from the bubbles. Either because of number, or luck, or skills, but most likely due to all this a dozen of us did survive. Totally 22 ships and a bunch of capsules were killed.

Few pilots could not escape and stayed in the back pocket. After some hesitation I apologized for leaving them behind, advised to safe-log-off and promised to compensate loses if they die trying to escape solo. I know one player did not make it.

And here we got back into a positive mood: we found quite a bit of content in Decklein.

Till some extent, Dimitryy got initiative in leading fleet further and we got quite a few more ratter with blingy modules. I was half paralellized due to recent whelp and also due to burned out MWD :/

(05:06:17) 2R-CRW, VFK-IV
Procurer +29.78m
Mobile Tractor Unit +11.22m
Ishtar +537.57m
Mobile Tractor Unit +11.15m
Stratios +489.23m
Capsule +38.34m

(05:24:25) NC-N3F
Covetor +48.89m
Vexor Navy Issue +158.25m

In this pocket we were met by SLYCE, and even though they had enough dictors and other ships, we escaped losing only 1 Comet.

(05:41:59) 2O9G-D
Federation Navy Comet -26.99m
Capsule -0.01m

Dunno how did I make it back with burned out MWD, slowboating through Phobos's bubble, but I made it together with 9 other survivers.

(05:47:53) CCP-US
Procurer +27.61m

(05:54:53) ROIR-Y
Reaper +1.47m

Stats
ISK Destroyed: 2,541,124,914.7
ISK Lost: 657,408,704.76
ISK Delta: 1,883,716,209.94
Efficiency: 79.447%

So, what was good?

1. Heh, we did end up to be ISK positive and get quite a few good kills; one of kills ended up on the Spectre's KoD
2. Heck good survival and FC practice.
3. I got a good support from fleet members, from those who survived Hordes campus run through. Not sure what others think :/
4. We were able to escape quite successfully from presumably stronger forces quite a few times and lose nobody.
5. There is quite a bit of content in null, just need to pull a bit from low-sec
6. Mental support, encouragement, and assistance from survivals

What could be better? Or maybe lessons learned.

1. Now, I think that getting brawling doctrine into a bees hive was (let's face it) a stupid idea. Brawlers are good for ganking ratters, maybe taking a fleet fight in low sec, but not good to compete with Horder QRF, that can easily get 50-100 pilots.
2. The idea to run into the back pocket, to get yourself into a bigger danger was a mistake. We should run away from the blob: we would lose MUCH less
3. I was thinking about taking a fight, and even losing we would make quite a few kills. Now I think this would be a better option, than shamelessly loss half of the fleet.

What's next? I still want to take one more brawling fleet into null. This time I won't go into C4C, but into nul somewhere.
I also want to take kiting or sniping fleet. Not sure what Horde will form up against us, but with today's experience being a bit more careful we should be more successful. We shall see.

Though, I'll take a few weeks pause and focus on the E-Uni Cup tournament.

Thanks all for joining the fleet, hope you enjoyed it and will give me credit for another one. Hope to see you again in space!

P.S. Please do leave your feedback and let me know what and how can I improve.

[Klue Pythious]

Newbro Mussings:

This fleet had more pilots x-up for 3 or less fleets in the Uni than I have seen so far, probably 15+. FC did a very good job keepig this in mind throughout fleet. FC kept commands clear abd consistent even through times there was too much chatter in mumble.

This was my first time scouting for a fleet and at most accomplished not getting lost and confirming what other scouts already found. I did several times land on grid with a neut in a side system, but was unable to get the tackle, mostly due to bad positioning or warping off just as a target arrived.
I would appreciate any feedback.

Glen had scouting, and just about everything else, completely under control; and it was a good learning experience following him around and paying attention to his decision making when hunting down fleet targets. I would REALLY like a scouting class led by someone like him. Also it seemed like he already had a dozen tacticals in every single system we ended up in even if by accident. Should I work on that?

[Rodger Kint]

From the AAR's on Horde's side you attracted two responses. The Horde Vanguard of vets in Sivipuls and a new pilot form-up in a swarm of corms. The corms were lead by a first-time FC who made a number of mistakes including warping himself only to the fight, lol. Unfortunately for you the other group was lead by Securitas Protector, one of our most experienced FC's, and the former alliance leader of Spaceship Samurai (HONOR). He's been the leader on all my Rorqual whale kills in sov null. He was in a bifrost so they probably also had links. It looks like the vets spotted you on the way in and alerted the new bean pilots that "EVE University is coming to say hello with Comets", so they decided to form up a response in C4C and they chose Corms for ease of use.

[Drake Shea]

Great fleet made better by our escape shenanigans, the FC avoiding about 3 separate bubbles with no prop mod, and getting myself home in one piece. It was also great experience for me flying command dessies. They're quickly becoming my favorite type of ship. That micro jump field generator got me out of 4 bubbles where I was also pointed.
Boosh for the win!

[Budda Sereda]

Newbro Mussings:

This fleet had more pilots x-up for 3 or less fleets in the Uni than I have seen so far, probably 15+. FC did a very good job keepig this in mind throughout fleet. FC kept commands clear abd consistent even through times there was too much chatter in mumble.

This was my first time scouting for a fleet and at most accomplished not getting lost and confirming what other scouts already found. I did several times land on grid with a neut in a side system, but was unable to get the tackle, mostly due to bad positioning or warping off just as a target arrived.
I would appreciate any feedback.

Glen had scouting, and just about everything else, completely under control; and it was a good learning experience following him around and paying attention to his decision making when hunting down fleet targets. I would REALLY like a scouting class led by someone like him. Also it seemed like he already had a dozen tacticals in every single system we ended up in even if by accident. Should I work on that?

Thanks Klue.

I can't advise what you should do better as I was not on grid with you and don't remember exact situation when you were on grid with neuts. But if your opponent does right things you can't catch him. As soon as they see hostile (you) in local they should warp to a safe BM, and watch for combat probes. They can stay on grid but align out and warp away as soon as they see you landing on a grid.
Unless they want to take a fight. But in this case, in nul sec, condor would tipically just die. So you may did right things, but unless an opponent makes mistake you won't catch it.

Yes, if you want to practice scouting or want to go solo, you should have a plenty of BMs.

From the AAR's on Horde's side you attracted two responses. The Horde Vanguard of vets in Sivipuls and a new pilot form-up in a swarm of corms. The corms were lead by a first-time FC who made a number of mistakes including warping himself only to the fight, lol. Unfortunately for you the other group was lead by Securitas Protector, one of our most experienced FC's, and the former alliance leader of Spaceship Samurai (HONOR). He's been the leader on all my Rorqual whale kills in sov null. He was in a bifrost so they probably also had links. It looks like the vets spotted you on the way in and alerted the new bean pilots that "EVE University is coming to say hello with Comets", so they decided to form up a response in C4C and they chose Corms for ease of use.

ATM I don't remember exact situation, but if it was only Svipuls at some point we would engage. Having a HORDE we had very low chance and tried to run away.

I saw maybe 1 Cormorant on a kill mail... I guess first-time FC has to learn and improve how to get on kill mails

Having said that, I believe I have something to improve too ...

[Glen Burney]

Great fun Budda, that was a learning experience for me too in some ways... A few times you asked for advice and I should have been more forceful in delivering my gut feeling, which was, let's not go in there. For anyone who isn't familiar, here is where we were:



Note all the pretty green in that picture. That's ratting going on, and it's like Christmas for our fleet, lots of stuff to kill. But well defended strategically, there's only 1 way in and out.

C4C is essentially Morannon for Horde, there's a Keepstar set up right next to the L-C gate in there. When I first jumped in there were a handful of Cruisers and BC on the gate and another 12-15 ships on the Keepstar. My first instinct was to RUN AWAY! With a determined fleet of defenders, we would have trouble, even being in small ships, because of Interdiction Bubbles. Some of our fleet wanted to tangle with them though, and that's understandable, we came to kill!

We all jumped in and I asked the fleet to get to my ping; at least we were temporarily safe while I tried to get a warpin on something alone, and that's what we did with the Caracal. Then, as we looked for another opportunity, I think we got probed, and we scattered, and Budda asked again what we should do. My desire at that point again was to run, but again I didn't advise as forcefully as I should have. I could have said something like, "we can go deeper, but we will lose at least 1/3 of our fleet on extraction."

So we went all the way to MPAA, and we did get some ratters, but even though we had a good extraction plan (we went "around the horn" through 8QM, largely avoiding bubbles), we did still get caught mostly on that C4C <-> L-C gate.

There is ONE fleet I can recall had alot of fun with Horde up there, it was oversized MWD drone Battlecruisers with frigate logi and tackle, we kited them for 45 minutes at least, and they couldn't get out to us at all. But with that fleet, it was clear from the start that there was no getting away, there was no extraction. The plan was to kill as many of them as possible before we died, which we did eventually do. I'll look for that BC fit...

The other thing that works fine for messing around in pockets like that is a big interceptor fleet. VERY enjoyable, and unstoppable, easy to kill ratting VNI with >15 interceptors. If you have Command Dessies with you, do a fleet warp out of gate cloak, that gives the CD a bit more time to get away before the defenders can find it and lock it...

So again, I wish I had stated my concerns more clearly before we plowed into Horde... Apologies all

[Kontxesi Buchanan]

There is ONE fleet I can recall had alot of fun with Horde up there, it was oversized MWD drone Battlecruisers with frigate logi and tackle, we kited them for 45 minutes at least, and they couldn't get out to us at all. But with that fleet, it was clear from the start that there was no getting away, there was no extraction. The plan was to kill as many of them as possible before we died, which we did eventually do. I'll look for that BC fit...

Was it the 4k Myrmidons?

[Glen Burney]

yup, thanks txesi...

https://spectrefleet.com/doctrine/fleet/375

Created a spectre doctrine for it.

[Decklin Quark Reiger]

Yeah, I'll second the interceptor fleet. I had a great time there in a fleet of about 50 combat cepters, where our FC had combat probes, and we absolutely made their defence fleet look silly, by warping back and forth on the grid, picking off targets and warping away again. We tore apart a defence gang of Cormerants and Caracals using hit and run tactics as against stragglers.

[Budda Sereda]

Yeah, I'll second the interceptor fleet. I had a great time there in a fleet of about 50 combat cepters, where our FC had combat probes, and we absolutely made their defence fleet look silly, by warping back and forth on the grid, picking off targets and warping away again. We tore apart a defence gang of Cormerants and Caracals using hit and run tactics as against stragglers.

Do you remember was that brawlers with blasters (Taranis?)? Or things with rockets (Raptors)? Was that Shield or Armor?
I guess FC was also in a ceptor, just with Core Probe Launcher?

Sounds like a fun idea to try.

[Decklin Quark Reiger]

Do you remember was that brawlers with blasters (Taranis?)? Or things with rockets (Raptors)? Was that Shield or Armor?
I guess FC was also in a ceptor, just with Core Probe Launcher?

Sounds like a fun idea to try.

The standard Spectre Fleet combat interceptor doctrine ( Fleet ID: 101 ) which is a mix of shield and armour ( no logi)

The Taranis fit uses rails.

The FC was either in a Malediction with combat probes, or perhaps it was a command destroyer with combat probes, I'm not 100% sure. Both are possible.

To make the doctrine work well you really need numbers. Also it worked a bit better when more people ratted in VNIs, Gilas, Ishtar's, Rattlesnakes as opposed to carriers with automated "near2" local, and the ability to tether at a Citadel.

It's been a while since I've been on one of these fleets, but it could still work.