[AAR] Kitchen Sink Frigates 12/21

[Calder Ormand]

Roam members (34)

Spoiler

Abscondias Akbar
Affra
Arteryn Amatin
Bill Achasse
Biwako Acami
Brejik Haumaan
Ca'ain
Calder Ormand
Coaxster
Cyus Erata
Dgdsgy Foobar
Eregorn81
Glen Burney
Gunman Aldent
Harai Rex
Jax Renalard
K950
Kirsid Tannaway
Kontxesi Buchanan
Luigi mon-de-sound
Mols Halleck
Projekt Style
Raxon Noseworthy
Rohan Amadeus
Siernan
Space Warfare Development
Sunshine Gracchus
Sylvanium Orlenard
Trevor Grambling
Waldy Droog
Xenopha Cadelanne
Z0X Ambrye
Zeerse Solaris
Zeon Alabel

We undocked with around 20 frigs, but gained a good bit when we began engaging the Paladin.

We went through almost 10 systems with nothing in space, then we made it to Vlillirier where the scout found a Catalyst at a plex. I think our scout tackled the catalyst before I got the vanguard in and we lost the scout and the catalyst.

(01:41:10Z) Vlillirier
Atron -13.01m

We lost this Griffin to sentry guns. I guess Cyus aggressed a neutral on a gate, can't remember what happened there. The punisher at at a tactical near the gate that we were sitting on and Jax managed to get a warpin on top of him.

(01:53:30Z) Oicx
Griffin -2.24m
Punisher +7.87m

Kinakka was really fun. We were a few jumps from Ichoriya and I was planing on docking the fleet up soon for a break, but this break didn't happen for another half an hour, since all of the nearby systems were buzzing with action. Our scout went in and found a Hookbill at a plex. He went for tackle, but the Hookbill drifted out of range and killed the scout before reinforcements could assist. After we spiked system, I called for the fleet to gather on a structure (or station) that the Hookbill warped to. Either a member of the vanguard or a scout called out an Apoc on D at a Large. Turns out the Hookbill pilot, Zorian, upshipped into an Apoc for us. So we made quick work of the Apoc and while we were sitting at the large a Vexor, Blackbird, and Rifter came to the plex at different points and the fleet swiftly disciplined them. Our dear friend Zorian also came back in a Stabber and was dealt with.

After a few words in local, I figured we'd had enough of camping the Large and warped the fleet to a safe to see what Zorian had in store for us. Zorian and friends came out it would is best described as Kitey BS. Zurian brought out a Cerberus, Caracal, Dragoon, Oracle, and a few Cormorants for us and we politely declined. Once the fleet was all together at a safe I sent the scout to the next system and we moved on.

(02:06:19Z) Kinakka
Atron -6.62m
Capsule -0.01m
Apocalypse +242.14m
Vexor +39.38m
Stabber +36.16m
Blackbird +21.98m
Rifter +9.01m

At some point, we lost Abscondias. Not too sure how this happened.

(02:27:02Z) Pynekastoh
Merlin -2.17m

Once the fleet got into Akidagi, I had my scouts check the two connecting systems while we waited out our suspect timers. While we were waiting on the scouts' intel, a flashy Legion jumped into Aki and just sat there while we killed it and it's blingy pod.

(02:42:08Z) Akidagi
Legion +429.9m
Capsule +574.78m

Ca'ain reported a Keres and Stabber in a plex in Nenn and once we landed on the gate to assist, a flashy Legion jumped through the Nenn gate. Unfortunately, Ca'ain went down as we were engaging the Stabber.

(02:48:08Z) Nennamaila
Slasher -2.4m
Stabber +36.64m


When we got back into space after our break, Z0X reported a VNI in Nenn and it got away before we could get into position. After I called for the fleet to jump out of Nenn and warp to our outgate, Jax tackled a VNI a jump back and he died by the time the fleet could provide backup.

(03:09:11Z) Nennamaila
Imperial Navy Slicer -49.01m

The scout found a few frigs around in Pyn, initially thought to be at a Rogue Swarm Lair, but later found in a Novice. I was slow on calling the fleet in after the vanguard and we lost Foobar.

(03:16:02Z) Pynekastoh
Merlin -7.58m
Cormorant +10.62m
Tristan +5.58m
Capsule +0.01m

My scout reported that a flashy Hecate tried tackling him on our outgate (Heydieles) in Abune and as the fleet was in warp a 5 man cormorant fleet landed with us. What I should've done was try to grab any stragglers and leave it at that, but I called for the fleet to hold on the gate while the Corms jumped through and set up at a tactical. The scout that was ahead reported that the dessies were at a tac and I had a few other members of the fleet jump to get me a warp-in. At this point most the member of the fleet were flashy and I called for the fleet to aggress once we got in the system and near the enemy fleet. In hindsight, I should've been more clear and broadcasted some targets so that are dps could be more focused. Members of my fleet just tried tackling what was near and we lost 5 ships with no kills to show for it.

(03:24:59Z) Heydieles
Slasher -2.13m
Capsule -0.01m
Atron -13.4m
Atron -0.79m
Maulus -7.06m

As we sat on the Old Man Star gate in Abune, the scout gave word of a 15+ man Cerberus fleet with logi support. While I mulled this over and waited for more intel from the scout, a permaflashy Gila jumped into Abune and crashed the gate while we followed him through to engage. We get to the other side and begin tackling the Gila when the Cerberus fleet lands on us. Turn out the Gila was bait for the HAC fleet, but we managed to get away with only one loss.

(03:34:03Z) Old Man Star
Scythe -23.73m

Looks like we lost Harai to a Smartbombing Proteus

(03:34:25Z) Hikkoken
Capsule -0.01m

While we were holding on a gate and waiting on intel from our scout and Punisher aggressed me taking gate guns

[ 2017.12.21 03:37:21 ] Foudas > Kill: Foudas (Punisher) i died a hero

(03:36:52Z) Old Man Star
Punisher +5.67m

At this point is where the fleet took a strange turn. After killing the Punisher, we held on the outgate until our Cerb friends came back and landed on us. This time we made it out with no casualties. Biwako convo'd me about a Paladin down the chain from Innuendo, so I got the fleet together at a safe and worked on getting us a new desto to the hole.
We nearly missed the Paladin all together, since he finished the anomaly by the time we burned through 6 systems ignoring a flashy Domi along the way
Biwako tried to go for tackle, but the Maurader went into Bastion. The fleet got on grid and proceeded to orbit the Paladin and while signature-tanking his smartbombs. Unfortunately, I neglected to tell the fleet to set up a tight orbit around the ships to outtrack his guns and we lost a few frigates. After two PvP pings and 40 minutes later, for neuts and more dps, sweet Siernan came to our rescue with a Curse and yummy neuts. Also at some point backup in the form of a single Daredevil tried and failed to come to the Paladin's rescue.

(03:57:35Z) J125316
Griffin -3.26m
Nemesis -73.55m
Oracle -111.39m
Capsule -0.01m
Tristan -5.13m
Daredevil +70.67m
Griffin -10.2m
Paladin +2588.13m
Capsule +501.58m

Stats
ISK Destroyed: 4,580,094,916.29
ISK Lost: 333,700,331.79
ISK Delta: 4,246,394,584.5
Efficiency: 93.209%

Thing to Work On:
I made a bad call when telling the fleet to engage the non-flashy Cormorants in Heydieles. We lost 3 ships to gate guns. I should've got a clearer picture of what we were jumping into before I told us to engage.
I've learned that around 2 hours would be a hard cut-off for me fleet-wise. This fleet was a long one at around 3 and a half hours and during the last hour of the fleet, the clarity of my commands took a huge hit.
I mentioned this in my last AAR, but clear communication with my scouts still needs to be worked on. There were a few times it wasn't clear to me that the scout was already going for tackle. I'd need them to clearly communicate as they are warping, sliding, etc.
I got a little flustered while trying to get the fleet positioned in the wormhole, but I'd attribute that to it being late and such.

[Coaxster]

I'll put some words here. Calder did a most excellent job in SPITE of the things that were wrong about this fleet. Things like backseat FCing (ahem), unexpectedly large ships, people dying quietly, fragile scout ships, collapsing wormholes, and low signal to noise reporting, among other things.

The reporting is what I want to pull on here. Never ever EVER say something like "enemy is here" or "on me" or "at the gate". Use 3rd person and give complete details: "orthrus is redboxing coaxster on OST gate in AGOZE". Always. Otherwise you are just producing distracting noise. This fleet had so much going on that these types of reports cost some engagements. Also, if you are trying to engage something (and hopefully you're a scout) speak up with what you're trying to do BEFORE you get point ("Jax has point on orthrus in...oh I'm dead"). The further you are from the fleet, the earlier you have to say something. If something has happened to you, like you feel behind and something catches you, say something immediately. "oh Cyus is dead by a thorax a few systems back" is not helpful. If things are crazy when it happens, type it in fleet.

Note this is also why I don't like "outgate" (sometimes it is ambiguous) or "ingate". Say the gate and system.

I look forward to more of your work Calder!

-Coaxster

[Ca'ain]

Ca'ain reported a Keres and Stabber in a plex in Nenn and once we landed on the gate to assist, a flashy Legion jumped through the Nenn gate. Unfortunately, Ca'ain went down as we were engaging the Stabber.

(02:48:08Z) Nennamaila
Slasher -2.4m
Stabber +36.64m

I'll take that trade every day! Hero tackle!! What would have been handy is when Vanguard landed on grid, to announce on comm's they had point - I might have been able to disengage and save the killmail; but I regret nothing.

My scout reported that a flashy Hecate tried tackling him on our outgate (Heydieles) in Abune and as the fleet was in warp a 5 man cormorant fleet landed with us. What I should've done was try to grab any stragglers and leave it at that, but I called for the fleet to hold on the gate while the Corms jumped through and set up at a tactical. The scout that was ahead reported that the dessies were at a tac and I had a few other members of the fleet jump to get me a warp-in. At this point most the member of the fleet were flashy and I called for the fleet to aggress once we got in the system and near the enemy fleet. In hindsight, I should've been more clear and broadcasted some targets so that are dps could be more focused. Members of my fleet just tried tackling what was near and we lost 5 ships with no kills to show for it.

(03:24:59Z) Heydieles
Slasher -2.13m
Capsule -0.01m
Atron -13.4m
Atron -0.79m
Maulus -7.06m

I didn't know what happened once I went down, did we loose tackle and the Corms warped off? Or did you scatter? That was the end of the fleet for me, couldn't really reship at this point before I had to go.

The reporting is what I want to pull on here. Never ever EVER say something like "enemy is here" or "on me" or "at the gate". Use 3rd person and give complete details: "orthrus is redboxing coaxster on OST gate in AGOZE"

I am totally guilty of this, and never even thought about it until I read your comment. This is something I've got to work on.



My general comments, I think the fleet was great. Some good fights, great kills, and great efficiency. We had a fair number of people who hadn't been on many fleets before. I think it was a great success. And you took the fleet into a wormhole - awesome (too bad I couldn't join that part).

A couple of suggestions, there was a lot of chatter on comms, especially later in the fleet. That made it a bit hard for me to get clear direction from the FC, I'm still pretty green flying as a scout (I think this was my fourth fleet as a scout). Calder, I wouldn't blame yourself for the clarity on comms, the other members in the fleet need to know commands between FC and scouts take president. As a scout I'll definitely speak up in the future to ask for chatter to stop - fleet is a team, all got to work together. Your comment on not knowing when scouts go for tackle - the first 2 times I flew scout I did the same thing, I took tackle on a ship before FC gave me the order to engage - I learned from that AAR (and good debrief with FC later), don't engage without confirmation from FC.

Calling primary tackle when we had 2 or more ships to engage would have helped, and maybe the 2IC, or 3IC should have assigned primary, secondary, ect on key commands for you. It'd be hard for FC to do that, with such a large fleet.

My last comment, I was on comms for the wormhole part and the non-uni guys that kept complaining about directions because they didn't have uni-bookmarks - someone (scout, 2IC, or 3IC) should have put the directions in fleet chat for them. I don't think it is the FC's responsibility at all to give directions to lost members of the fleet, especially on comms. Those guys should have figured it out on their own and got it in chat it's too hard to communicate wormhole numbers in comms. FC is managing a whole fleet, can't focus on one or two stragglers.

But.... I really enjoyed the fleet, and would fly with you any time again.

[Calder Ormand]

I didn't know what happened once I went down, did we loose tackle and the Corms warped off? Or did you scatter? That was the end of the fleet for me, couldn't really reship at this point before I had to go.

I had to rewatch the fight to get a clear picture of what went down. Basically, once we came into the system we landed about 40km off of the Corms. A few people tried to grab tackle on the dessies, took gate guns ,and the Corms warped off after killing a few frigs. All in all a bad call on my part.