[AAR] ArmorAss Frigates (8th December 2017)

[Ra'zok Zateki]

Roam members (26)

Spoiler

Alto DeRaqwar
B'aldrick Aivoras
Baro Gaar
BatFC
Breeze One
Calder Ormand
Calvin Fidard
Decklin Quark Reiger
DonBasuno Ichosira
DonkeyPunch Udan
Harai Rex
Iskarr Jarak
Jeracho Dorne
Kora K
Padraic Musbrandt
Ra'zok Zateki
Raijin Naom
Raxon Noseworthy
Rider Isleman
SketchyManDan Williams
Union Pivo
Wokum
Yrgrasil
Zana Fehrnah
Zarquu Fussuhfusus
Zeerse Solaris

Mid-sized fleet with a nice composition (mostly AF DPS, some T2 logibros and a sprinkling of EWAR). Bit of a rollercoaster, starting really well - levelling out with a hugely messy fight and a fair few losses, then finishing with the bittersweet taste of a potential - but lost - Dread kill. Do note that Dotlan was not functioning for the entire fleet so intel was much more sparse than usual, we mostly relied on good scouting and a few dedicated souls trawling through Zkill.

Spirits were high as we left toward Black Rise - first intel came in of a navy BS fleet in Dastryns and a Titan in Ost, a little too big for us! It was a fairly quiet route through Placid, filled mostly with the FC complaining about slow aligning and fleet members missing fleet warps ... which did get a lot better to be fair.

Scout (Rider) got into the swing of things and found a mega navy issue running the rogue drone event site in Ren, fleet was running a jump behind but Rider took and held tackle - even through the single heavy neut. Fleet arrived on grid as a VNI arrived to assist the mega. Tackle was spread nicely and we held the VNI while plincking through the Mega. Fight ended cleanly with no losses and a good chunk of Gallente navy debris being left in our wake.
(20:41:59Z) Renarelle
Megathron Navy Issue +496.6m
Vexor Navy Issue +146.05m

Managed to catch and quickly eliminate a Corax that was 20km off the gate, this is where we started noticing some issues - people not warping or broadcasting for reps when taking gate guns. Luckily no one died here but it was closer than it should have been.
(20:58:41Z) Kedama
Corax +5.99m

First of two Goonswarm Brutix's that were caught between the Nenn/Hikk gates. This one dropped a cyno and caused a bit of a communal clench moment, but we overheated and ate through his hull tank in no time. And nothing came through the cyno.
(21:08:55Z) Hikkoken
Brutix +88.81m

Pretty much the same story as above, but no cyno was dropped this time.
(21:19:36Z) Nennamaila
Brutix +82.53m

Gate gun issues came back to haunt us - lost a Kitsune as the pilot didn't warp off or broadcast for reps.
We were also investigating a potential engagement against 6+ Tornados that were defending a mining operation on an Anathor. FC had no experience taking this kind of fight (or interacting with these new structures etc.) so asked the scout to warp at range. Unfortunately arty Tornados were on grid and blapped him at range (stationary scout = dead scout). We did get a ping and tried to take an engagement a little later, but the Tornados were tethered on the structure.
(21:42:08Z) Kehjari, Villasen
Kitsune -47.2m
Ares -44.09m

Decklin provided some Zkill info about a potential fight in this faraway system Okagaiken. Scout found a fight between a domi and a couple cruisers so we landed on grid and took everything down. Fleet spread tackle really nicely and the Logi kept us up amazingly - praise the logibros.
(21:58:47Z) Okagaiken
Caracal +35.5m
Thorax +35.36m
Dominix +260.73m

This should have been the end of the fleet, and for many, it was - however, after a short bio and up/reshipping in Ichoriya we headed back out towards Kedama with reduced numbers and worse fleet composition. We then took fight at a large complex against a rail Corm fleet who were hitting out to extreme range and kiting. A big problem for slow Armor AFs. After landing on grid it was clear the enemy fleet was pulling too much range, FC called for the fleet to anchor on him and to pull out of the enemy fleet's range but some fleet members went hell for leather at the enemy fleet and were gunned down at range. After catching a Hawk and a couple other targets FC called for align and fleet warp to get a ping behind the enemy fleet, however just after initiating fleet warp, the FC was tackled by a garmur and the fleet was split in half. Things got a little out of control and we lost a couple more friendlies. After getting to the ping and then getting back on grid in a better position, we took the fight a lot more comfortably, resulting in half the enemy fleet getting blapped and the other half leaving the grid. Some interceptors to hold tackle here would have been amazing and will definitely be pushed more in the next fleet. A couple of silly mistakes were made at the end and another deacon was lost in "Logistical Loot Retrieval". After this fight we started heading home as it was clear the numbers and composition was a lot weaker than previously.
(22:33:10Z) Nennamaila, Hikkoken, Pynekastoh
Atron -6.43m
Punisher -9.47m
Cormorant +19.21m
Hawk +57.09m
Cruor -66.19m
Capsule -42.38m
Deacon -66.49m
Enyo -45.15m
Cormorant +6.22m
Cormorant +14.37m
Deacon -65.9m
Atron -6.63m
Retribution -52.71m

Finally get back to Ostingele, nearly home, a half-broken fleet, barely limping through gates, and an assault frigate as a scout. We are just about to call it a fleet when we see a thorax on the gate and scout takes tackle. Fleet jumps through, holds the Thorax off the gate when it drops a cyno. A Revelation immediately jumps through. We stay on the (now very tanky for our small numbers and small DPS) as the Revelation starts locking us up. FC calls for fleet to orbit, and keep transversal high, to ensure the Revelation can't track - No smartbombs so we didn't need to keep range. At this point we were some 7 DD ships, no EWAR and a couple of logi so couldn't continue the fight - the Revelation was not suspect so we were taking gate guns, so we had to leave it. Unfortunately, one of our AFs got caught by tackle on the Revelation and, although it couldn't kill it, the gate guns did the job. Such a shame we didn't have starting numbers as it could have been a comfortable Dread kill.
(23:10:33Z) Ostingele
Thorax +26.81m
Vengeance -47.55m

Stats
ISK Destroyed: 1,275,254,906.85
ISK Lost: 500,199,061.78
ISK Delta: 775,055,845.07
Efficiency: 71.827%

Major thank you to everyone who attended, with special mentions to Rider (Scout) and all our Logibros.

Any and all feedback (good and bad) much appreciated: Feedback Form

[Raxon Noseworthy]

ty for fleet sorry we couldnt get dred

[Captain Cean]

We were also investigating a potential engagement against 6+ Tornados that were defending a mining operation on an Anathor. FC had no experience taking this kind of fight (or interacting with these new structures etc.) so asked the scout to warp at range. Unfortunately arty Tornados were on grid and blapped him at range (stationary scout = dead scout). We did get a ping and tried to take an engagement a little later, but the Tornados were tethered on the structure.
(21:42:08Z) Kehjari, Villasen
Ares -44.09m

Welcome to our Mining OP

[Yrgrasil]

After catching a Hawk and a couple other targets FC called for align and fleet warp to get a ping behind the enemy fleet, however just after initiating fleet warp, the FC was tackled by a garmur and the fleet was split in half. Things got a little out of control and we lost a couple more friendlies. After getting to the ping and then getting back on grid in a better position, we took the fight a lot more comfortably, resulting in half the enemy fleet getting blapped and the other half leaving the grid. Some interceptors to hold tackle here would have been amazing and will definitely be pushed more in the next fleet.

Probably some kind of Antitackle like 2-3 Destroyers would also be an idea instead of additional Interceptors? Ceptors will probably just focused down at the beginning.

[Decklin Quark Reiger]

For that engagement with the Cormorants:

From the Logi perspective, the main issue here was the fleet getting spread out as some people were burning under the Cormorant guns (and catching reps just fine, initially) while others were too far away from logi, who were spread out ourselves.

For future reference, I wouldn't recommend that our fleet should try to pull range from longbow corms. They can shoot out to 120km comfortably, and get good tracking. Instead I would focus on keeping the fleet together, and burn in to the Corms to get under their guns. Sure it will take a little while, but we had enough reps to do this reliably, if and only if the fleet didn't get spread out.

Regardless of that tactical decision from the FC, the fleet members really need to follow the FCs decision. Burning away from the fleet ( even if you're making a "good" move in terms of getting under their guns ) will get you killed because the fleet can't support you.

My own "logistical loot retrieval" was a perfect example of me making this exact mistake. Instead of sticking with the fleet and following FC orders, I decided to try to be a hero and retrieve my logi bro's loot for him. That choice cost us a Deacon, and made the rest of the roam less effective.

[Decklin Quark Reiger]

PS: I love my 10 MN Deacon

[Calvin Fidard]

I would like to thank the scouts who took on the task when no one else could come forward. Despite their reservations I think they did a fine job.

[Zarquu Fussuhfusus]

For that engagement with the Cormorants:

From the Logi perspective, the main issue here was the fleet getting spread out as some people were burning under the Cormorant guns (and catching reps just fine, initially) while others were too far away from logi, who were spread out ourselves.

For future reference, I wouldn't recommend that our fleet should try to pull range from longbow corms. They can shoot out to 120km comfortably, and get good tracking. Instead I would focus on keeping the fleet together, and burn in to the Corms to get under their guns. Sure it will take a little while, but we had enough reps to do this reliably, if and only if the fleet didn't get spread out.

Regardless of that tactical decision from the FC, the fleet members really need to follow the FCs decision. Burning away from the fleet ( even if you're making a "good" move in terms of getting under their guns ) will get you killed because the fleet can't support you.

I second this analysis. I'd also like to point out that the A-type reps fit on multiple Deacons also played a big part in keeping some people alive - especially the ones who didn't broadcast or broadcast late. That extra ((171-120)/120)*100 = 42.5% per second repping power over the cheap fit deacons makes such a difference. It may add 15% (8-11m ISK) to the fit, but its a HUGE boost to delivered reps-on-target.

In one fight we were keeping four people up at the same time (two T1 and two T2) with staggered reps from 3 deacons as the enemy reliably switched targets every 5-10 seconds or so. T2 reps would not have held the incoming DPS on those split targets and the cycle time on the reps to end-cycle, switch and re-activate would have cost us ships. The A-types really proved their value in that engagement.

My own "logistical loot retrieval" was a perfect example of me making this exact mistake. Instead of sticking with the fleet and following FC orders, I decided to try to be a hero and retrieve my logi bro's loot for him. That choice cost us a Deacon, and made the rest of the roam less effective.

Where as I stayed on grid and looted the field after the enemy (and our fleet) warped off, later warping off myself when a Garmur landed 90k away and started burning in, you went to repair for 5 mins then warped back right into their hands. Eh well, we all make mistakes

[Rider Isleman]

so asked the scout to warp at range. Unfortunately arty Tornados were on grid and blapped him at range (stationary scout = dead scout).

Had a great time. I should know better than to sit still in just about any situation but got lax cuz I thought I was safe at 100km out. Don't know my ships well enough to know that the Tornado could hit to that distance. Lesson learned - always be moving. Thanks for the fleet.

[Padraic Musbrandt]

I can't theorycraft well enough but at that range your angular velocity is going to be low so you could very well still be hit.

[Budda Sereda]

Gate gun issues came back to haunt us - lost a Kitsune as the pilot didn't warp off or broadcast for reps.
We were also investigating a potential engagement against 6+ Tornados that were defending a mining operation on an Anathor. FC had no experience taking this kind of fight (or interacting with these new structures etc.) so asked the scout to warp at range. Unfortunately arty Tornados were on grid and blapped him at range (stationary scout = dead scout). We did get a ping and tried to take an engagement a little later, but the Tornados were tethered on the structure.
(21:42:08Z) Kehjari, Villasen
Kitsune -47.2m
Ares -44.09m

Why not? With the numbers you had... that is definitely a possibility. First thing, scout should not sit stationary. 2nd, assuming scout is in an interceptor hull: depending on the place Tornados as sitting and warp-in, the scout should give the fleet a warp-in. Depending on success if this, and if Tornados run away with 20 T2 AF and logies you should be able to land on grid, close distance, tackle and smash them. It is a bit of a risk, but I would try.
I'm surprised Rider felt into a trap of sitting still... curious how did this happen...?

Such a shame we didn't have starting numbers as it could have been a comfortable Dread kill.

Was it buffer tank? I guess even if you had 20 AF, Dread would be able to tank 4k incoming DPS for quite awhile...

PS: I love my 10 MN Deacon

Where you able to keep with the rest of fleet? I assume you were at least 50-60% slower...?

[Captain Cean]

Why not? With the numbers you had... that is definitely a possibility. First thing, scout should not sit stationary. 2nd, assuming scout is in an interceptor hull: depending on the place Tornados as sitting and warp-in, the scout should give the fleet a warp-in. Depending on success if this, and if Tornados run away with 20 T2 AF and logies you should be able to land on grid, close distance, tackle and smash them.

Its hard to Tackle Something that is Teathered Budda you should know in the meantime that you need more then such a simple trick to get us.
Also its not the best idea to start a Fight in Front of an armed Standup Structure, most when you are in Frigates.

[Kora K]

Also its not the best idea to start a Fight in Front of an armed Standup Structure, most when you are in Frigates.

Solid advice here, do not fight people in their home, fight them in the streets

@Budda : When I when to provoke a fight around a citadel, I just warp outside tether range (100km), burn a bit away, and start making fuss in local. You can still get pointed at this range, but you won't get blasted in the face by the citadel smartbombs.

[B'aldrick Aivoras]

Really enjoyed flying a hyena in this fleet.

Comms were clean and FC clear - scouts and logi were awesome as seems to be becoming more common!

Uni is training well

Keep up the good work

[Decklin Quark Reiger]

PS: I love my 10 MN Deacon

Where you able to keep with the rest of fleet? I assume you were at least 50-60% slower...?

No - much closer in speed than that. I had restrained 200mm plate compared to the 400mm of the others. For many of our fights, it just meant that I had to be able to anticipate ahead of time which way I needed to move, and not just be reactionary. The advantage obviously is the smaller sig radius.