[AAR] Soli/NSC Black Rise Round II (Nov 3 01:30)

[Yuri Levnik]

Howdy all,
We had an eventful evening up in Black Rise after our long trip up from the space boonies. We got a couple of ganks and a multi-round fight with some solid kills and good ISK efficiency. Overall, a good night out.

Trasher-ers

Spoiler

Budda Sereda - 2IC
Calder Ormand - 1 Scout
Creosart - DD, Vanguard
DonkeyPunch Udan - DD
Fingers Valente - Logi
Genevieve Nakrar - Logi
Imad Gratia - Logi
Kirsid Tannaway - DD
Mal Kard - DD
Mistake Nemo - DD
Misty Snowbird - DD
Razer Thukkerkin - DD
Rohan Amadeus - Tackle
SketchyManDan Williams - DD
Space Warfare Development - 2 Scout
Sturym - DD, 3IC
Wokum - DD
Yuri Levnik - FC
Z0X Ambrye - DD, Vanguard

The Soli wing undocked from Gravity Well around 01:45. Our trip to PC9 was relatively uneventful, though we did cross jump another fleet that was headed home. We proceeded on to Stacmon and formed up with the rest of the wrecking crew. We got into space around 02:15; the trip up from Soli takes a while!

We were rewarded almost immediately by a series of kills, including a Catalyst/Algos team that Calder found and an Ishtar that Z0X was able to chase down. Nice killmail there!
(02:22:20Z) Frarie
Catalyst +4.07m
Algos +17.92m
Ishtar +353.12m

Calder caught a relatively green Vexor pilot in a Blood Raider site and we blasted 'em.
(02:32:18Z) Renarelle
Vexor +27.46m

Budda tried to nab a Vigil on a gate but we were not there to support him and the gate guns got him as the Vigil held tackle.
(02:51:45Z) Aldranette
Thrasher -11.67m

We had been in space for about 45 minutes and had covered some ground when we ran into our first fight of the night. These CALSF guys were on a gate, all flashy, so we landed on them and engaged. We got their logi and a couple more good kills but lost a Hyena and an Enyo as well as quite a few mainline boats. Overall, we could have traded better - my target calling was a bit suspect as we kept shooting their Caracal after it got out of range. They also had a lot of DPS on grid despite having slightly lower numbers than us.
(03:03:50Z) Akidagi
Thrasher -10.28m
Thrasher -13.08m
Bantam +3.35m
Thrasher -7.86m
Navitas -8.35m
Bantam +7.14m
Hyena -59.36m
Algos +5.09m
Catalyst +15.81m
Enyo -50.14m
Hawk +51.73m
Navitas -2.67m
Tristan -2m
Thrasher -9.11m

We limped over to Ichoriya and struggled to reship. When we first landed in Ichoriya DonkeyPunch got in on a flashy Rupture kill. The Rupture was unfitted and got caught by an instalocker slasher/gnosis gatecamp, but we'll include the killmail in our stats anyway (;
(03:21:19Z) Ichoriya
Rupture +15.55m
Capsule +0.01m

The CALSF guys wanted another round. We decided to oblige them and slid into a medium plex while they reshipped. There was some kind of miscommunication and one of their Algos pilots showed up without all his buddies. Then we got confused and thought he wasn't with them and blew him up. Oops...
(03:32:22Z) Akidagi
Algos +23.34m

They slid into us with a somewhat scary mix of RLML Caracals and an Aug Navy Issue. We tried to shoot down their Merlin but it warped off and we disengaged as the cruisers pulled range. Budda FC'd this fight and will add additional comments on strategy and tactics.
(03:38:13Z) Akidagi
Atron -9.03m
Algos -2.02m
Capsule -0.07m

We engaged them a second time; this time we got the Merlin (who was apparently their FC, lolwut!?) but they had added an ONI and Onyx and there was too much DPS for us to trade effectively. Not a good matchup.
(03:49:00Z) Akidagi
Merlin +4.61m
Thrasher -12.18m
Thrasher -11.44m
Thrasher -6.9m
Thrasher -12.79m

Following the last round of the fight we made our way back to Stacmon and subsequently back down to NSC and Solitude.
Stats
ISK Destroyed: 529,196,457.94
ISK Lost: 228,952,767.81
ISK Delta: 300,243,690.13
Efficiency: 70%

What went well:

• -We flew well! We did a lot of warping around and folks kept up. Minimal lemmings, folks were on grid when we fought, overall nice work everyone.
  -Calder did a great job as scout. Always one step ahead of my requests and ready with timely intel. Thanks Calder!
  -Our logi bros repped valiantly. T1 logi frigates are always hard to fly, and especially under gate guns, so I am pleased to say that I caught some reps and they helped me out. Thanks y'all! Come fly logi cruisers with us in Soli sometime and try easy mode logi (;
  -Rohan stepped up to fly a Hyena which is a killer boat for catching folks on gates.
  -We got some great kills. The Trashers throw out a lot of alpha, very fun to use.
  -We fought CALSF and learned some things.
  -For those of us who came up from Soli/NSC, we got to raid a different part of space.
  -I had fun!

What could have gone better:

• -My target calling is weak. I'm used to the groups of 2-3 ships we deal with down in Solitude so my overview sorts opposing ships by distance.
  The result is that the targets move around on the overview constantly which is super inconvenient when there are 5+ ships on grid. I need to adjust my UI to make it easier to call targets and practice broadcasting targets.
  -I also can get bogged down easily trying to decide what to chase. I probably need to run a few more low sec fleets to adjust to having more than 10 people in local (;
  -Reshipping took a long time. Not any fault of our pilots' - we just didn't have ships and fits easily available.
  -The CALSF guys reshipped to a comp that was not something we could fight very well );

Overall, this was a fun fleet with some really solid kills. Thanks to everyone who came out!
Yuri

PS: if you want to run kiting dessies again, watch out for Talwars and Longbows down by NSC. I am particularly fond of Longbows (; (; (;

[Budda Sereda]

First few comments on Yuri's AAR.

We were rewarded almost immediately by a series of kills, including a Catalyst/Algos team that Calder found and an Ishtar that Z0X was able to chase down. Nice killmail there!
(02:22:20Z) Frarie
Catalyst +4.07m
Algos +17.92m

I would add these guys popped very nicely, exactly the way things should go when Artillery shows its beauty

Budda tried to nab a Vigil on a gate but we were not there to support him and the gate guns got him as the Vigil held tackle.
(02:51:45Z) Aldranette
Thrasher -11.67m

Yeah, that was dumb. I just was afraid he will run away and wanted to hold him, but: 1) did not get confirmation from FC we are going to engage; 2) did not really have time to invent something smarter than tackling him...

-My target calling is weak. I'm used to the groups of 2-3 ships we deal with down in Solitude so my overview sorts opposing ships by distance.
The result is that the targets move around on the overview constantly which is super inconvenient when there are 5+ ships on grid. I need to adjust my UI to make it easier to call targets and practice broadcasting targets.

I would say it is a right choice to sort targets by distance. Not sure if I do the best, by that's my default sorting. If I have time to prepare for the engagement I chose ships to shoot first and in this case I sort by hull type and try to pick what's in range.
Once immediate danger is done, I sort by distance and pick-up those that are closest/in optimal and possesses the best DPS/EHP ration (T1 BC like Tornado and Oracle first), etc.

if you want to run kiting dessies again, watch out for Talwars and Longbows

If under 'again' you mean "Thrashers where kiters" then you got me confused. They are not kiting, especially in a fit with AB.
Neither are Talwars or Longbows. Talwars and Longbows are both snipers. Good doctrine, but that's not kiting.

Hope that helps.

1st fight with CALSF.
Was an interesting and I would say balanced fight. I was reshipping and a bit late (like 20-30 seconds) for engagement.
I think we could do better...
Dunno, how did it happen, but somehow we lost 2 Thrashers before we killed first Bantam. And 1 more Thrasher and Navitas while killed 2nd Bantam.
Maybe because Bantams were at long range and we needed time to close the distance.
What we could do better here is to understand the position of opponents logies and load the proper range ammo first.

During the fight, logies were able to save my almost completely broken armor, but after logies when down I was killed too.

Kudos to logies and whole fleet!

2nd fight with CALSF.

Preface.

We were reshipping when Yuri asked me to speak with people who approached him asking for a 2nd fight. Clearly, we were interested in that.

The only condition I asked them to downship a bit as Caracals are just devastating. First, they accepted. Later they told that we have a triple number of them... and we agreed they will upship few pilots to cruisers (see my video recording that has open chat window with their FC, and full chat in the attachment below). Here is a quote:

Spoiler

[ 2017.11.03 03:30:50 ] Luhen Ostus > you do out number us
[ 2017.11.03 03:31:32 ] Luhen Ostus > we lost alot of guys
[ 2017.11.03 03:31:35 ] Budda Sereda > ...
[ 2017.11.03 03:31:38 ] Luhen Ostus > you outmuber us by 3x
[ 2017.11.03 03:31:53 ] Luhen Ostus > we only have 7 guys now
[ 2017.11.03 03:31:56 ] Budda Sereda > ups
[ 2017.11.03 03:32:04 ] Budda Sereda > 2x only
[ 2017.11.03 03:32:55 ] Budda Sereda > so...
[ 2017.11.03 03:33:07 ] Budda Sereda > last time you had less and did well...
[ 2017.11.03 03:33:16 ] Luhen Ostus > and had cruisers
[ 2017.11.03 03:33:24 ] Luhen Ostus > you all could have killed us last time
[ 2017.11.03 03:33:24 ] Budda Sereda > ok, let it be
[ 2017.11.03 03:33:59 ] Budda Sereda > ok, will wait you in medium
[ 2017.11.03 03:34:08 ] Luhen Ostus > ok cool
[ 2017.11.03 03:34:12 ] Luhen Ostus > we will be there
[ 2017.11.03 03:34:16 ] Luhen Ostus > not all cruisers though


I expected few cruisers, but they brought 3 Caracals, NOmens, Navy Augoror, and Onyx. My first reaction was "Seriously? Fleet, align to small, warp at 10km and slide on contact".
But, ... we are in an Artillery Thrashers, ready to shoot Caracal every 2 shots... why don't we try blapping few Caracals and run away before losing too many? So decided to give them a fight.
Another biggest surprise was their Onyx slid into a medium. How the hell that happened? T2 can't slide medium..?
Ok, looks like that are T3 cruisers that can't slide into a medium... Ok, lesson learned.
When I saw that Onyx inside the plex I again had an intention to run away, but... decided, ok, I'm tired of running back and forth between plexes, most likely fleet as well. We had a plan and 1 more Onyx will only mean that we will shoot less Caracals before we need to run.

Engagement.

So we engaged, shoot Merlin, primaries 1 Caracal, he pulled the range... run away, 2nd ... I was killed, called Yuri to take over,... Yuri called "scatter".

That was an unpleasant outcome. We did not lose much, but we did not kill them too.

Conclusion.

So what was good?
* The fact that we got a fight and had a chance to practice anchoring.
* We did disengage first time maintaining the order.
* Made a video recording.
* We had a nice chat with opponents FC, and said "thanks in the end".

What could be better?
* Anchoring. I confused logy and EWar by asking to stay at another side of the beacon. They should stay at the side of the fleet, opposite to the beacon. Later I 'kind-of' addressed, but was not really clear again... and ended-up asking them to anchor on Yuri.
* I feel I overestimated the strength of Thrashers. Maybe that's because we did not have pilots with L5 skills?
* Arrangements of engagement was not in our favor. I was told in the past, that arranged fleet in EVE usually don't work well. EVE is not the game about fair fights. And you start enjoying this game when you accept this. But for arranged fights, you are indeed looking for the fair game.
I'm fair and honest and getting tired negotiating fair deals, so I often accept weaker conditions for my team and trying to oversmart and overplay opponent.
* Even though chat went well, I was told things like " you all so could have killed the oni and the caracals" Caracals - maybe, ONI? Seriously? 60k EHP being under the fire of 7 cruisers that designed to kill Thrashers? Did he think we are complete noobs? Maybe he get confirmation of this opinion because we took the fight at all. Hope he will read this and learn I do consider that idea (primarying ONI) as very poor and offering this as a piece of advice as an intentional mislead.
* After watching the video I see we should have not engaged. 1st) because we did not have enough to BLAP them, and 2nd) them with MWD while us with no scrams they just kited us.

Ok, lesson learned. Anyway, was fun engagement.

Video recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyXuj70 ... e=youtu.be

[Budda Sereda]

ONI? Seriously? 60k EHP

After some thoughts,... ONI is not mandatory 60k EHP. Kity version is much less tankier... though, we never knew what was the fit, and opponent first warped in Onyx... later Caracals, and only later NOmen... so we could assume it was not really tanky, but he just was meatshielded.

[Razer Thukkerkin]

In our fights with CALSF, maybe it was just my perception but it sure seemed like they decided to burn down all the survivors of Round 1 when they came back for round 2. I personally barely survived Round 1 and was down to half of my hull when I managed to escape. During Round 2 it seemed like I was primaried right off the bat. Again, maybe that was just my perception... In my experience, arranged fleet fights are at best a 50/50 shot. This can improve if you are dealing with an honorable opponent, but someone like CALSF is not in that category IMHO. That being said, most FCs given the chance to blap another fleet by stacking the odds in their own favor are going to take it and why shouldn't they? The fleet was a lot of fun nevertheless and I would do almost all of it again but hopefully smarter next time!