[AAR] Opportunistic pvp

[Hirmuolio Pine]

Did you know that the blood raider gauntlets in low security space always include battleship spawn? After hearing this I took my wolf and headed to nice and quiet Solitude low sec to run blood raider gauntlets. I was able to run the sites in peace for the whole morning and later I came back and ran some more sites.

Then I saw it. A lone month old pilot in VNI in d-scan in Sarline. I tell the others in chat that we have a potential target.There is one guy with some interest. I head out to boystin to refit my pve optmized ship for pvp.

I get back in my pvp fitted wolf and see that the VNI now got a caracal friend. I decide to keep an eye on them while Erwin Madelung is coming in as a backup. But before he arrives the caracal guy leaves and VNI docks. I start to run the blood raider site while erwin goes away to do some other site.

But soon a new guy enters the system and I see a thorax in d-scan. While I am trying to see if he is in a site or belt with d-scan he warps into my blood raider site and engages.

Erwin had gone somewhere already so I am alone. I decide to play for more time while Erwin comes back. He is out of weapon range already and I manage burn away, warp out, and warp back while reloading my SAAR.

But then things start to get complicated. When I land back the thorax is gone and a lachesis is waiting instead. Before I realise what is going on he has me in his long point. But I wonder why the thorax left. Are they enemies and did the thorax run away?

Lacesis engages me with his EM drones. The 91,3% EM resist on my trusty rusty wolf keeps me alive. The lachesis mismanages his range and I am again able to warp away.

But as I warp away Erwin arrives and warps in. I wasn't sure if it he should or shouldn't come so he warped in before I told I was warping out.

But everything goes well and Erwin is able to finish off the lachesis and I land back in site just in time to see the lachesis pilot to warp out in his pod. Erwin also had no point in his ship so the lachesis pilot clearly didn't pay enough attention to small details https://zkillboard.com/kill/65666684/

But there is no time for us to celebrate yet. Before I even start approaching the wreck a new ship arrives.
With the taste of blood I think "The thorax returns, another target to kill". But it was no thorax, it was a proteus and I was in its web+scram range. Erwin had disappeared in shadows (cloak) and I wen't down in flames. https://zkillboard.com/kill/65666718/

But the story doesn't end there. As I head back to boystin the proteus pilot convoes me and links a killmail: https://i.imgur.com/lhuuBSo.png (not on zKillboard yet or they have no API)
Turns out I was right and the lachesis wasn't a friend of the thorax. Some wormhole people or something had eyes on us and came to finish the fight. It is opportunistic pvp all the way down.


Good:
Managing to get someone into sudden pvp opportunity. It can be hard to lure solitude people to pvp.
I was able to stay slippery twice and run tactically retreat from a fight.

To improve:
Slow decision and communication to engage or not to engage.
Fight doesn't end when enemy dies. Look at what comes in.
I forgot to eat my drug.

[Budda Sereda]

Wolf for PvE? How much DPS does it project? Why not Catalyst or algos?

Nice kills!

[Hirmuolio Pine]

Here is the PvE wolf. Fast traveling with 5,5 AU/s. Easily tanks the sites with high natural resists. 245 dps to resist hole with excellent application.

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[Wolf, blood]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Small Armor Repairer II

Small Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery
1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner

200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
[empty high slot]

Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Small Projectile Ambit Extension I

Phased Plasma S x228
EMP S x13000

[Budda Sereda]

Not bad, but I love this game because there is always something which can be improved.

T1 ammo? On the T2 frigate? Faction ammo gives you 27 more EHP (with all L5) which is roughly 10%. I assume time benefit will let you run more sites and earn more than you save from using cheap ammo.

Have not run those sites myself, how much tank is really needed? Do you really need to be able to tank 100 dps?

Pretty much any T1 destroyer can tank half of it, has just slightly slower speed (4.5 au/s vs 5.5).

Catalyst with blasters can project 365 DPS ... but Thermal+Kinetic.
But if we switch to Thrasher (again, assuming 50 dps tank is enough) it can do 316 DPS into the resist hole as well. Additionally, it can fit neut, web and another mid-power-slot module. Not sure what would make a good use so I put a scram so you can 'help' somebody running site Just reload to Hail

Spoiler

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[Thrasher, PvE vs BloodRaider]

Gyrostabilizer II
Small Armor Repairer II

1MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small Knave Scoped Energy Nosferatu

Small Anti-Thermal Pump I
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Small Anti-EM Pump I

Also, it costs 12M (vs 32M for Wolf) and requires much fewer skills.
Even better would be T3D, but I assume that is already skills problem. But if it is not, you can increase DPS up to 406 (in sharpshooter mode with a shield fit similar to yours).

[Hirmuolio Pine]

I tend to run pve with T1 ammo. Paying 30x more for faction ammo to get +15% damage feels too much since it is an ongoing expense. The hull and modules ar single payment so it is easier to pay more for them. Too bad T2 AC ammo sucks, that wouldn't be so expensive.

The tank on the pve fit is near the sweet spot. The armor can go down a bit if three frigates spawn near you and web you so that the cruiser can hit. But since the dps goes down fast after webs are cleared you could do with less active tank if you have some buffer. You rarely need to run the repairer when there are no webs on you and the cruisers in second room never hit.

The dps graph tells what we need to know
Green: Your thrasher fit
Blue: Pve wolf
Red: Pvp wolf


The thrasher deals more damage at close range but loses at longer ranges. Thrasher is 300 m/s slower than the wolf and the frigates web forcing you to often shoot from some distance. I think wolf would clear the first room faster but thrasher would clear second room faster. If the tank on thrasher holds it would probably be a bit faster overall. But that tank is a bit thin and may not hold when multiple frigates web and cruiser shoots you.

Confessor would need to be cap boosted since the battleship neuts you dry (300 GJ/cycle when it decides to neut). Svipul could prbably work quite easily. But I like wolf.

[Arrek Lemmont]

Thanks for writing this up.

Just for the record, a pulse Confessor with a fancy deadspace SAR works very well. You don't need a cap injector as the battleship's neuting isn't constant and you're not running your SAR as you're sig tanking.

[Adree Jericho]

I tend to run pve with T1 ammo. Paying 30x more for faction ammo to get +15% damage feels too much since it is an ongoing expense. The hull and modules ar single payment so it is easier to pay more for them. Too bad T2 AC ammo sucks, that wouldn't be so expensive.

The tank on the pve fit is near the sweet spot. The armor can go down a bit if three frigates spawn near you and web you so that the cruiser can hit. But since the dps goes down fast after webs are cleared you could do with less active tank if you have some buffer. You rarely need to run the repairer when there are no webs on you and the cruisers in second room never hit.

The dps graph tells what we need to know
Green: Your thrasher fit
Blue: Pve wolf
Red: Pvp wolf


The thrasher deals more damage at close range but loses at longer ranges. Thrasher is 300 m/s slower than the wolf and the frigates web forcing you to often shoot from some distance. I think wolf would clear the first room faster but thrasher would clear second room faster. If the tank on thrasher holds it would probably be a bit faster overall. But that tank is a bit thin and may not hold when multiple frigates web and cruiser shoots you.

Confessor would need to be cap boosted since the battleship neuts you dry (300 GJ/cycle when it decides to neut). Svipul could prbably work quite easily. But I like wolf.

Which fitting tool is that?

[Arrek Lemmont]

Which fitting tool is that?

It's pyfa

[Hirmuolio Pine]

No, it is EFT.

You can download updated files for EFT in here: https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eft-eve- ... od/5904/12

[Adree Jericho]

Ha, they didn't let it die!

I'd be wary of using EFT though - if changes are significant enough, mere database updates may not be enough someday.

[Arrek Lemmont]

No, it is EFT.

Ah right. I didn't look clearly enough at my phone. Pyfa generates a DPS graph too.

We almost never quote anything but the on-paper DPS - without qualifying that we're only referring to a theoretical maximum. As we can see from Hirmuolio's example, this usually tells us very little about actual applied damage. It's great that you shared this, Hirmuolio!

It's possible to use Wolfram plot other things. I've used it a couple of times to plot missile damage vs target speed - also enlightening. Light missiles are perhaps not so overpowered as is generally perceived!