[AAR] Solitude Caracal Cruelty (Oct 13 01:00)

[Yuri Levnik]

Howdy all,
We took Caracals up into Syndicate and joined up with our NSC buddies. We blapped a couple Cavemen and some bubbles and then spent a *very* long time chasing a 404 Vexor fleet around. We finished with a brief fight against Project Harvest and allies where we could not break the logi and scattered, losing a couple of pilots.

Note that we were originally in two fleets. I have combined the kills here, but a number of pilots originally shipped out of NSC. Y'all are welcome to add replies or write your own AAR (;

Roam members (21)

Spoiler

Amber Charante - DD
Amira Evolta - Logi FC
Arrek Lemmont - DD
Breenie Shi - DD
Budda Sereda - DD/Interdictor
Calder Ormand - DD, Anchor
Crimson Herring - DD, 2IC
Glen Burney - DD
Mal Kard - Logi
Omnicious Shardani - DD
Raijin Naom - DD
Richard Starwalker - DD
Space Warfare Development - DD
Sturym - DD
Talman Drak - DD
Telanoir - DD
Wokum - DD
Yuri Levnik - FC
Z0X Ambrye - Scout
gaheris Anninen - DD
jammer Atruin - DD

We had a very quiet trip up to 6-C where we first found some combat. The NSC guys were already trying to catch a Vargur with bombers but it did not go well and they lost a Malediction to gate guns. There were some Cavemen around who moved into Reb. We blew up a few bubbles for grins.
(01:32:07Z) Reblier
Malediction -53.37m

(01:38:35Z) 6-CZ49
Mobile Small Warp Disruptor I +1.12m
Mobile Small Warp Disruptor I +1.12m
Mobile Small Warp Disruptor I +1.12m
Mobile Small Warp Disruptor I +1.12m
Mobile Small Warp Disruptor I +1.12m

The Cavemen came back into system and we engaged. Our on grid fleet got a pair of kills, but we had a couple of off grid bombers get caught and blown up. Careful in them bombers, y'all - no tank! Note that Project Harvest was also around at the time but left system without engaging (and after making accusations of us working with the Cavemen).

(01:47:00Z) 6-CZ49
Manticore -62.61m
Caracal +30.24m
Vexor +18.99m
Hound -50.38m

The Cavemen headed home and we killed another bubble.
(02:03:58Z) 6-CZ49
Mobile Small Warp Disruptor II +4.79m

About this time we had a fleet of 404 folks come into system. They were in Malediction/Stiletto/Exequror/Vexors with maybe 6 Vexors at peak. We spent a very long time warping around after them. We didn't catch any of them, but I am pleased to report that we did not lose anyone either. Those guys are pretty good PVPers, so I was proud of our ability to stick together and not get caught - nice work y'all. Do wish we could have gotten some kills though. Instead, we shot a lot of missiles at them as they either warped off or jumped...

Partway through warping around, Chester wanted to take the pod express. We obliged.
(02:33:40Z) EZA-FM
Capsule +0.01m

We finally headed back to PC9 to drop folks off. Project Harvest had reformed along with some Ghost Legion allies. I was feeling brave so I decided to engage, calling a Sacrilege primary as it was closest. They had two Oneiros on grid and we definitely couldn't break the reps, and they had a lot of damage on grid too, so I called for scatter just after their HIC bubble went up. We lost two Caracals who couldn't get out. Interestingly, the 404 guys had stayed on the PC9 gate in JH- and somehow got a Ghost Legion Vexor on the other side.
(02:59:17Z) PC9-AY
Caracal -14.13m
Caracal -29.76m

After all that excitement, we called it a night and snuck back home to Solitude.

Stats
ISK Destroyed: 59,622,283.28
ISK Lost: 210,247,318.77
ISK Delta: -150,625,035.49
Efficiency: 22%

What went well:

• -The stats here are a bit misleading. We actually fought well in the fight with the Caveman and got two kills with no on grid losses; the bombers got caught elsewhere in system. If you pull the bomber losses and malediction we came out ahead.
  -As mentioned, we did a *lot* of warping around to position relative to the 404 guys and try to catch them. While we didn't catch anyone (hard to do with a doctrine that has no points or webs) we also managed to avoid getting caught. The 404 pilots are talented and we held our own - nice work everyone.
  -Our logi wing provided excellent reps and also did a great job of positioning themselves. Tip of the hat to our Logi FC and logi first timer Mal.
  -Always a pleasure hanging out with the NSC folks.
  -There was content in space! We shot things and got shot!
  -I had fun.

What could have gone better:

• -I do think I could have been more aggressive in trying to catch 404. They were trying to pick off interdictors, which we probably could have used to our advantage. I started out warping us to 50 on the gate when chasing, as is standard for Caracals, but we finally started landing at zero to try to catch them ASAP. Sadly, with no webs or scrams we were unable to keep them from warping or jumping.
  -We didn't take a break mid-fleet. Sorry y'all, I always try to give everyone a break about an hour in but I got caught up in the chase.
  -Official stats aren't great for kills/losses.

Overall, a decent night out. Thanks for coming y'all!
Yuri

[Anna Iwaira]

Make sure to have caracal fits prepared more than 40 mins in advance

[Richard Starwalker]

Throwback Thursday! Richard dies to his Nemesis...... Gate and or Station guns! Guess it's been a while since I've been in Low and totally forgot about them AGAIN

[ 2017.10.13 01:32:34 ] Saanguinee > lol gate guns
[ 2017.10.13 01:32:38 ] Chester Arbosa > Richard Starwalker o/
[ 2017.10.13 01:32:59 ] Austin Ryder > luls
[ 2017.10.13 01:33:09 ] Richard Starwalker > Lowsec yep been a few mins lol
[ 2017.10.13 01:33:22 ] Austin Ryder > not at you
[ 2017.10.13 01:33:33 ] Austin Ryder > Richard Starwalker aggressive piloting not to be frowned on
[ 2017.10.13 01:33:40 ] Austin Ryder > o7
[ 2017.10.13 01:33:46 ] Ivan Kalara > balls of steel
[ 2017.10.13 01:33:53 ] Richard Starwalker > o7 dumb piloting in LS though
[ 2017.10.13 01:34:28 ] Austin Ryder > it happens


It was fun but just too much chasing people. Everyone always plays with the gate to separate fleets and when you out number your prey and have logi don't worry so much about warping to 0 and having your logi warp in as well if the enemy fleet just jumps you can follow and if they engage you can tie them up and have logi pull rage. If you are landing on 0 you can follow and maybe catch something if they warp off the other side and if they land at range and try to kite you can just have your whole fleet jump gate and wait for them on the other side, dictate the engagement more and chase less.

[Crimson Herring]

Thanks for the fleet! Looking forward to the next one!

[Sturym]

So I'm hoping not to get backlash from this, but here's my thoughts.

I love these fleets - They give us a chance to roam and get out there to find content and learn how to function as a fleet. And don't get me wrong, the NSC guys are great when it comes to accommodating us into their team. The issue I've got in my mind (and perhaps I'm the only one) is when we SP for the fleet, it's under the impression we're roaming for content. While I love the idea of ganging up with NSC, I feel for people new to the roams it can be overwhelming trying to join forces and engage in large scale battles. Maybe I'm wrong, but there were times in there even I felt slight out of place. Maybe it's because PH are a bunch of warp drive abusers not wanting to get in a real confrontation. *grumble grumble*

That being said, in the event we're doing just that, I think we should make that intent clear prior to the fleet form up. The only reason I say that is so new players understand that we're not doing your "typical fleet" and this is basically a "We're joining in an engagement that's already in progress." Despite the losses, I think we did an excellent job moving, communicating, and the such. I think it'll be critical for those who are doing Logi Wing Ops to get in the appropriate comms and use whisper key. There was some cross-talk that tended to muddy the waters of what commands were being made. I also heard someone other than our FC making requests to warp to/jump/align, but thankfully the FC noted this and requested members to belay the order.

As someone who will likely consider joining the FCC, I always strive to provide feedback I feel may be valuable. Hopefully that's how this is taken. Let me know if I can elaborate more on my thoughts.

o7 Sturym

[Budda Sereda]

@Sturym: In my opinion, joining fleets with NSC was the right move and was executed well. Also, I don't think this impacted FC's intention: I'm sure Yuri would hunt same Vexor fleet even if we did not join with NSC.

I admit the whole movement could look a bit confusing for newbros: it was quite active. Though, I think that FC did quite well (something could be better, in my opinion, which I will mention below).

What could be better is that we should have caught those Vexors. And I believe there were 2 reasons why we were not able to. First I would like to mention that that group of Vexors originally was flying in between of their tacticals and in our fleet composition it was quite impossible to catch them.

Option would be to get a combat probber and land on top of them. With some luck we could catch them, but we would need quite a few tackles with scrams to hold them on grid. But that would require somebody to reship and not sure if opponents would still be around.

The second thing is dictor (myself) should have performed better. To my own excuse, I will say that I'm quite inexperienced in a role of dictor. But what worse, is that I undocked with just 6 bubbles and until the end of the fleet when I DID HAVE A REAL CHANCE to catch them I had only 1 probe left

And the last one: we had supremacy in terms of DPS and logies and, as Yuri wrote in AAR, we should have been more aggressive. Warping at 50km makes sense if you are fighting bigger/stronger fleet. If you fighting the weaker one you should take some risk.

When those Vexors started playing gate games we should have done the following:
1. Warp to the gate at 0
2. Buble the gate, have 2-3 pilots aggress opponents and TACKLE them so they can't warp off. In this case, they would be forced to jump through the gate.
3. Because we have only 2-3 pilots aggressing opponents, the rest of the fleet (including a dictor) could follow them and jump as well.
4. On the other side - we repeat. They will keep jumping back and forth. And with some luck, we can kill somebody while he is crashing the gate.

The problem is that in a BLAP Caracal fleet we don't have many tackles . The only tackles we had a scout (I believe Zox in a ceptor) and somebody in a Hecate. With this, ... we can't effectively catch them.
Now I think I should have realized this during the fight and advised FC to stop harrasing them.

Another thing I could do better is to be less scary about been killed: we had logies and I had scram equipped, so I guess I could tackle Vexors myself. Maybe ask FC for permission to call primary when I catch something nearby.

And funny part: once I jumped into Rebellier, forgot that is a low-sec with guns and agressed Algos. Luckily, he just jumped so I did not die to gate guns

Otherwise, it was fun trying to catch those guys

[Adrien Claremont]

I don't think you did anything wrong in terms of fleet composition. The fleet should not be looking to tackle everything like we would do with a frigate blob. Ideally you'd want the Vexors to stay and fight but if they don't want to then there is little you can do. Vexors would massacre light tackle and your dictor if you tried to hold point.

One technique you can do is to get your dictor in front of the enemy fleet. I presume the dictor has dual hyperspatials fitted? Get the dictor one jump in front of the Vexors, and have him drop a bubble off the gate at 50-100km. When the Vexors, who I'm also presuming are warping gate to gate land, they'll be away from the gate. You land, dictor drops remaining bubbles so they can't warp off, kill what you can and force them to stay and fight.

[jammer Atruin]

I've got a question moreso than feedback. Were you warping us to 50km from our targets for safety? I think I heard on comms someone said it takes ~10 sec to burn to our missle range (41km). Why not warp to 30km. Lock time with a caracal on a cruiser is ~5 sec.

The enemy fleet we saw was mostly composed of Vexors. If they had wanted, they could have engaged us while we were still at 50km