[AAR] Lowsec Fisticuffs - The Bounty of Prism 17SEPT 2300

[Kontxesi Buchanan]

Date: 17 SEPT 2017
Form-up time: 23:00
Departure time: 23:15
Return time: 01:55
Duration: 2h40m

If you participated in this fleet and have not yet done so, please be sure to fill out the Fleet Feedback Form. Your comments and feedback are necessary for my improvement as an FC.

Roam members (18)
Calder Ormand
Elihugh Beecher
Garm Zandor
Kelon Darklight
Kernull
Kontxesi Buchanan
Oran Addler
Richard Starwalker
Rider Isleman
Ron Veda
Sioban Mernher
Space Warfare Development
Staberinde
Tlymphocyte
Wokum
Xana McBash
Yuri Levnik
Z0X Ambrye

☠ ☠ ☠ ☠ ☠ ☠ ☠ ☠ ☠ ☠ ☠

As the fleet was forming up, we were getting reports of some Gnosises chasing Unistas off of a Mordu's Legion battleship in Iges, so we went over to drop some pain on them. Started the fleet off nicely. Xana locked up a Unibro, but he didn't end up killing him. That was good, too much paperwork for me there.

Gnosis +86.02m
Gnosis +111.7m
Nereus +15.59m

We chased some random stuff around until we got to this little bit of confusion. The scout said that he had a Heron on the Vli gate in Oicx, but he either didn't say that he engaged him or didn't key up when he said it. We just sat on the other side with our drones out while he died, having no idea that it was happening. Sad day.

Condor -2.66m

In Kinakka, Xana found us a Griffin Navy Issue and a Vexor in a medium. As he slid the gate, a Maller and Cormorant landed behind him. The two original targets escaped, but we managed to take down the Maller. Calder died very quickly, looked like only about 2-3 shots before she was toast.

Tristan -7.31m
Maller +32.71m
Capsule +98.42m

A Dominix and a Sigil were spotted at a medium in Kinakka, but I wasn't really feeling that fight. Then a Catalyst was spotted in a small, and we went for it. As our vanguard landed, so did the Dominix. The Catalyst took off once I already had the fleet in warp, and I really didn't want to play with the Domi. He got his drones out as we landed, but the fleet got into the small without incident.

Kelon doing Kelon things.

Caldari Navy Hookbill +31.12m

This one I don't really know about, and neither did Kernull when I asked about it. I'm watching the video as I type this, and I don't see where we ever engaged a Caracal.

Caracal +23.54m

Three Tristans were hanging out on a gate and we tried to push them through to us, but couldn't make it happen.

As we were getting ready to jump into Nennamalia, Kelon found a Punisher in a medium in Akidagi. Richard warped to it and found the Punisher and a Thorax on the gate. He slid when they aggressed and the fleet tumbled in after him. The Thorax got away, but we got the Punisher right after our scout bought it. A Slicer landed on grid, but he and the Thorax were just too far out. Once I had the fleet gathered on the gate, an Omen Navy Issue warped in and we #noped into the plex.

Tristan -7.33m
Punisher +8.36m

I'm not sure what happened to Xana here?

Tristan -8.1m

A Golem undocked from the citadel where we were regrouping, but I figured that was a bad move. Kelon pushed a Tristan off tether.

Tristan +7.81m

We pushed a Slicer through to Nennamalia and followed him through, but couldn't get point. We continued on to a medium where the scout had found a Punisher, but we didn't get to him in time. He died a second or less after secondary point was called. We then took out a Tormentor at the Akidagi gate.

Crow -36.55m
Punisher +9.14m
Tristan -16.63m
Tormentor +11.39m

In Hikokken, our scout found: Omen Navy, Osprey Navy, Phantasm, Stiletto, Coercer. My exact words, "All right, that's disgusting." No thanks.

A flashy Slicer landed on us in Nennamalia, followed by a non-flashy Raptor. We jumped through and they followed. We tried to take the Slicer, and a flashy Inquisitor joined the party. He was too fast for us, and I called for the fleet to align. Kernull got pointed right before we warped off and didn't make it off.

Griffin -2.15m

We stopped in Pynekastoh for a bio, and then changed our destination to Prism when I saw that it'd gotten rather active in the last hour. In Okkamon, Rider found a Thrasher in a medium. He managed to take out our scout and one of the vanguard before we get rid of him.

Tristan -19.64m
Tristan -13.88m
Thrasher +18.8m

And now we get to the fun part of the night! There were 30 in local and several flashies when our scout arrived. It was a whole mess of frigates plus a Chimera and a Tempest. 7 frigates and a pod were reported a novice, so I jumped the fleet in and warped them to it immediately. They were all outside along with SUCH A LOOT FIELD. Then it was all about spreading points and killing shiz. At first, people weren't calling points but I got them doing it beautifully within a few minutes. We killed four or five in the initial engagement and the rest jumped off.

We started to loot the field, and then... they just started feeding us. One frigate jumped in at a time, about once ever two minutes. They would mass up on the small, we'd go there and kill a few, loot some there. They'd go back to the novice, we'd go there and kill some then loot. Then another frigate or two would just warp into the middle of us. Then back to the small. We dropped off loot in shifts and ended up with at least 80m in throw-away frigate fittings.

Highlights: "This is like fishing in a stocked lake."

"gf nice piloting" says the guy who warped into a blob of frigates

At one point one of them said, "plz, this is our home" in local and I almost felt bad.

Almost. ☠

Breacher +2.42m
Crucifier +1.6m
Merlin +3.23m
Merlin +3.23m
Breacher +2.41m
Rifter +3.28m
Capsule +0.01m
Breacher +2.34m
Rifter +3.28m
Capsule +0.01m
Rifter +3.23m
Tristan +6.87m
Tristan +1.31m
Slasher +1.92m
Capsule +0.01m
Merlin +3.25m
Capsule +0.01m
Crucifier +1.6m
Capsule +1109.38m
Tormentor +3.5m
Tristan +1.3m
Punisher +3.24m
Tristan +1.31m
Capsule +0.01m
Condor +2.79m
Punisher +4.37m
Breacher +2.26m

After half an hour of this and looting most everything, we took off home to Stacmon.


Stats
ISK Destroyed: 1,622,773,573.41
ISK Lost: 114,236,456.62
ISK Delta: 1,508,537,116.79
Efficiency: 93.423%


Review

Richard was back-seating me for this fleet, and his advice and nudging made it go much more smoothly than usually. He forced me to keep talking to the fleet and repeating myself when I normally would have stayed quiet. It kept the group together and focused. It was just a much more satisfying fleet overall.

I was so proud of the fleet of master point-callers I had by the end of the night! You guys were so on point (lol) with that after the first few minutes of the frigate massacre.

Items to Improve
- Make sure to keep on top of dying scouts and vanguards, and replace them as necessary.
- Need to go over fleet expectations before we undock to cut down on some issues as we fly

[Rider Isleman]

And we had a giant loot the field party!!!!!!

[Kontxesi Buchanan]

And we had a giant loot the field party!!!!!!

I'll get that filled in tonight! Space Warfare Development said he had some screencaps of the loot field to share.

[Xana McBash]

I'm not sure what happened to Xana here?

Tristan -8.1m

Somewhere between "It's getting late, I should welp this tristan so I can go to bed" and "I'm a droneboat, I can totally take out that GFI" I made a bad decision

*shrugs*

[Kontxesi Buchanan]

I'm not sure what happened to Xana here?

Tristan -8.1m

Somewhere between "It's getting late, I should welp this tristan so I can go to bed" and "I'm a droneboat, I can totally take out that GFI" I made a bad decision

*shrugs*

I'm starting to notice a trend of you dying within a few minutes of "thanks for fleet FC o7".

[Yuri Levnik]

Somebody forgot their RAPID check...
1.1BN pod.

[Calder Ormand]

This one I don't really know about, and neither did Kernull when I asked about it. I'm watching the video as I type this, and I don't see where we ever engaged a Caracal.

Caracal +23.54m

Huh, I don't even remember attacking a caracal last night. How strange.

[Kontxesi Buchanan]

This one I don't really know about, and neither did Kernull when I asked about it. I'm watching the video as I type this, and I don't see where we ever engaged a Caracal.

Caracal +23.54m

Huh, I don't even remember attacking a caracal last night. How strange.

Right? It's so weird. I'm glad to know I'm not just crazy. I really am curious what that's about.



The rest of the AAR is up!

[Tlymphocyte]

Haven't had this much fun in a while. I'm retiring the griffin I flew, it got primaried a bunch of times and dipped into hull twice during our little jaunt in Prism, but it survived and we made it home!

Nice work Kxsei!

[Michael Alderman]

Well, I heard about this roam second hand, from someone I know from elsewhere. His exact words were: "I've lost a lot of respect for eve uni
Coming and blobbing on Fin's FFA event." This is from someone who had quite a lot of respect for us. Fintarue is the full Twitch channel name for the streamer/organizer, I believe. Anyway. so I figured I'd try and get to the bottom of it.

It was streamed live on Twitch on CCPs channel. Fin, who was leading the event, also expressed that he expected better from EVE Uni. My friend said no GFs were given during this, either. I can ask him for his chat logs to verify this, but that seemed like a little much, at this point. And besides, I wanted to get our side of the story, as well.

We come in around 2 hours, 52 minutes. The VoD in question: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/175569223

Now, trying to understand where they're coming from, since I'm obviously biased towards EVE Uni on this one (duh), I can sort of see where they were disappointed, honestly. This was a pre-planned event for newbies, and it was pretty spoiled for a lot of them. They had no chance against a bunch of T2 fit Tristans. They were fish in a barrel. I think the list of kills there attests to that, and echos a sentiment in the AAR itself. I believe they did try and talk to you in local about it, and were ignored completely. Given the point of this public newbie free-for-all event, you can perhaps see where this put a wrench in the works, even if it was unintentional.

Do I think the fleet broke any rules for the Uni? Nope. Was it against any rule set by CCP? Definitely not. And I'm quite sure you weren't all just trying to spoil the event for them. Guessing you all missed when they told you in local, as well, and didn't know this event was going on. But, for some, did it makes us look bad? I think it probably did. At the very least, I expect gfs in local whenever a kill is made. Doesn't matter what the circumstances are. So, though I don't think you all did anything *wrong*, per say, I'm sympathetic to the idea that this didn't reflect well on us.

And I realise I'm probably going to catch some flak for this. I ask that you not shoot the messenger. I wasn't there, my friend was. I'm passing this along, because I care how we're perceived by the rest of EVE. I think we can do a little better on this front. Perhaps I (and they) have this all wrong. I'm just trying to be unbiased to the best of my abilities, and consider what's best for the Uni. Easy thing would be for me to have just ignored it entirely.

So, what would I do about it? Well, I suppose talking to Fin wouldn't be a terrible idea. A bit of damage control. This is to be a regular event every Sunday, and will keep being streamed on CCP's Twitch channel. I strongly suggest either joining the event as intended (but remember you can't shoot anyone blue to the Uni, of course), or taking the roam elsewhere next time so they can have their fun. Just telling Fin that would likely resolve any hurt feelings.

Now, on the other hand, I'm not exactly sure what they expected here. Seems like a rather brittle event.

As a side note, I think you can safely ignore the moderator DefiantDanel's comments during the stream. Seems to have an axe to grind. There's always one. Though perhaps more emphasis can be put into teaching good sportsmanship during PvP classes/practices/roams? I know I've always been told "GFs in local!" after fights, which is good, because I have things in front of local chat and I tend to forget about it.

Well, hopefully this will go in a constructive and positive direction.

/braces for impact

[Kontxesi Buchanan]

Wow. This will teach me to check my phone when I wake up in the middle of the night.

1) I had no knowledge of this event beforehand, and if anyone in fleet did, I didn't hear them say anything about it. I will rewatch my recording to see if I missed it.

2) I just checked local, and it looks like Fin did indeed say it and post the link. Unfortunately, I keep local chat minimized so that I'm just looking at the names. I only flick it open to type "gfs" and don't read much else of it when I'm FCing unless a fleet member points something out. I seem to remember someone saying something about midway through, but things were very chaotic and it wasn't made clear that this was some sort of official event.

3) There were GFs in local, though certainly not as many as there should be if you expect one per pilot per kill. This was, as you can see from the kills, 30 minutes of never-ending action. If we weren't engaging someone, we were looting and scooting. I do need to do better at reminding the fleet to GF, but this was a rather busy situation.


I will reach out to Fintarue to apologize and attempt to smooth things over. I had no intention of crapping on an event, especially a newbro one. And I certainly wasn't out to make Eve Uni look bad.

I won't change my AAR in the name of honesty, but... damn. I feel like a heel now. I'm sorry for causing a problem.

[Michael Alderman]

It's not that big a deal, and yeah, it did occur to me after I posted that if you had to say "GFs in local" for every kill, it would get massively repetitive after that one. lol

Anyway, I know nobody intended it to be perceived poorly, etc, so no worries. I'm not thinking poorly of any of you. Things happen, and the response makes me proud to be part of EVE University. Y'all are awesome.

Thanks for talking with Fin about it! If anything, I think doing that will leave him with a higher opinion of us than he started with.

Now go to sleep, you! I indeed do not recommend checking messages in the middle of the night. lol

[Koss Vha]

I can't help but laugh when things like this happen and all the history of good gets thrown out the window. Lower opinion of E-Uni? Hah!
Fin should get off his high horse and remember what Uni is, what it has done and what is stands for. This was an obvious and unintentional mistake, not to mention the fact that this type of fleet (newbro FFA) is bound to be welped unless proper precautions are taken.
Kontxesi was doing exactly what she was supposed to as an FC in training, which is to focus on the fight. A simple solution to improve chances of being noticed in local chat would be to actually dock up and stop throwing more ships at the blob, giving the uni fleet the chance to switch from combat mode back to a more aware state that might actually pick up on local chat. Remember, this is EVE and getting distracted by chat, not to mention links,in local is a great way to get killed.

Sincerely,
Koss Vha

[Richard Starwalker]

First I'd like to say you kept good control of the fleet and with as much stuff that was going on it wasn't easy to do so, very good work there FC.

I would also like to point out that if you are FCing a fleet you do not have to take a fight that you cannot win, not that Uni runs from fights like that all the time, we have been totally wiped out in several fleets and we don't reach out to them and ask why, we GF reship and move on. When a fight keeps happening and things are constantly moving I am not going to chat in local, I am not going to open conversation requests and I am not going to click links provided in local at all EVER. Sounds harsh? FC a few fleets and see if you are not processing incoming information as fast as you can, extra distractions lead to the loss of your fleet.

Watching Finn's video it's obvious they are not a fleet and just out fighting each other at different complexes how as a fleet are you supposed to know? If we had known there was a EVE event and it was just a little FFA like they had and had we come there to simply crush it sure we should feel shame for that. Had we been trying to stream snipe them or otherwise actually TRY to ruin their happy fun PVP time we should feel shame for that 100%. I highly doubt Kontxesi was aware of this event. If you were out in space and an entire fleet comes in deny them content, Uni would have moved on but if you watch this video even Finn keeps reshipping and coming back out, he was not the only pilot to do so, we were getting groups of guys warping back into us. Do we know they are not together? No. Could he have just asked that everyone dock up and let it chill for a moment, calm it down and either then start convos or post in local that it's an event yes, would we have just moved on if there was nothing to shoot, yes. If we weren't constantly shooting someone would we have had time to sort it out? Hell yes and we would.

Maybe next time he organizes an event he will maintain some control and sort things out, EVE is a great place full of amazing people. Uni isn't a corp that griefs people or camps their system and shuts all activity down but we won't be moving on from content when it's simply fed to us.

[White 0rchid]

Well, I heard about this roam second hand, from someone I know from elsewhere. His exact words were: "I've lost a lot of respect for eve uni
Coming and blobbing on Fin's FFA event." This is from someone who had quite a lot of respect for us.

Get better friends, I'd have done the same. You don't run into one of the hottest regions in fw lowsec and complain when someone starts shooting you. If you want to run an FFA, go somewhere that isn't Black Rise, seriously. An alternative is a dead highsec system and get someone to drop a can with a bunch of ammo in and take their ammo to give everyone suspect and then set your safeties green. Probably safer than lowsec.

Perhaps I (and they) have this all wrong.

You do unfortunately.

But, for some, did it makes us look bad? I think it probably did.

Not to anyone who has any clue how the game works. Just looks like a bunch of nerds having fun /shrug

I've only really got one thing to say about this - good job on the FC for taking a fleet out and providing content and fun. Keep doing what you're doing.