[The Crazy 8's] T2 Armor Frigates!

Locked
User avatar
Budda Sereda
Member
Member
Posts: 1591
Joined: 2016.01.20 02:45
Title: Manager (Fittings), Mentor, Lieutenant, Graduate, Management

[The Crazy 8's] T2 Armor Frigates!

Post by Budda Sereda »

In http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopi ... 6&t=106375 I called for a fleet in a new format. I'm glad I got enough people to form up a decent T2 gang. Even more, I'm happy fleet appeared to be very successful and showed quite a bit of potential. We did not get shiny kills, but we lost 0 ships and get quite a bit of kills and engagements.

Form-up.

We barely had enough so it was only 4 DD (Budda Sereda, Luca Goh, Lucius Septimus Severus, Wokum; all in Enyo) and 2 logies: James Krividus in Deacon and Trevor Grambling in Thalia.
James joined as after we left (4DD+1Logy) and I was in doubt what ships to call: Tackle, EWar, or Logy. In the end, as I was going to play safe I called for the 2nd logy.

Warm-up.

We moved towards BR myself, Luca, and sometimes Lucius looking to different pockets trying to catch an opponent. It was quite engaging as there was not much chilling on gates waiting for scouts to report: we all 3 exchanged with information.

In Aub we spotted T2 miner in Ice Belt, few times we tried to get him, but we landed at 20km or so from him and until we landed scram he warped away. That made me switch Scram to a Point. Just in case.

Getting kills.

Around Aldranette we got some content, but as James was in Ichoriya and content was hard to catch I decided to move towards Ichoriya to pick-up James. Once that done we came back to Nen and I believe it was Luca who spotted a Vexor in plex. Unfortunately Wokum needed to go afk so 3 of us needed some time to break Vexor: he was tanking like a boss, James was repeating "no worries, eventually, he will go down". The only thing I was worrying that we will get a third party on grid with us before we dispatch the Vexor, but no:

Kills and Losses
(02:51:59) Nennamaila
Vexor +46.42m
Capsule +0.01m
It did end up very well.

We did quite a bit of scouting back and forths, at some point Luca again found 2 dessies sitting in the plex. I advised we will go two of us to bait them because chances are that 2 of them just will kill a lone Enyo. We did go to engage and landed tackles. At some point, Luca called to be neuted and that he will lose a point soon, so I landed a point on primary and that helped us to kill primary. Unfortunately, 2nd run away:
(03:04:24) Nennamaila
Algos +6.55m

Looking for more stuff we spotted another gate camp consisting from few ceptors, pirate cruisers. They were chilling in between Hikoken and Pynekatosh, and after some shanian with them we decided to give up the route towards Tama and moved towards Kinaka.

In Aivonen we spotted Omen in plex, and again, 2 of us moved for a tackle, slid, but that Omen appeared too quick: I was 20km away, landed point, but he burned out of point range. For 2 of us only not able to catch up I decided to not follow him. He sweared on us in local, we gracefully ignored.
We chilled a bit in system, moved further towards Kinaka... and for some reason that Omen warped into us sitting on the gate. Hi jumped, we followed, and killed him.

(03:25:26) Pavanakka
Omen +41.06m
Capsule +0.01m
Quite a reasonable punishement for swearing :)

Don't remember how did we catch this Svipul, most likely one of us was flashy and lonely on the gate so Svipul thought that is going to be an easy kill... :) did not happen
(03:35:42) Martoh
Svipul +93.23m

Next kill was interesting: we killed the guy in "Glen's Style". At one of the gates I've noticed a flashy Caracal. I noticed where did he warp to, asked who is flashy (it was Wokum), asked him to warp to the same gate. Caracal engaged, we followed:
(03:44:52) Kinakka
Caracal +32.26m

Again, some scouting by 3 of us in different systems brought us back to Kinakka where we spotted a bait in the plex. You can guess it was Maller. I called 1 more person to get to tackle him first, but James advised: as that is a bait (99%) we better go all together and kill him quicker than his friend arrive. We did so and while he was half in armor we got a bunch of things on DScan. 2-3 faction cruisers, 1-2 T1, 2 Execurors. We had some thoughts about taking a fight, but trying to break 2 execurors with 4 Enyos having 2 logies under the fire of 5 cruisers was not looking reasonable.
I called everybody to align out... and we killed Maller before anybody got pointed.

(03:50:53) Kinakka
Maller +37.36m

GOOD JOB!!!

We almost called it a night and decided to go back to Akidagi with intention to jump into Ichoriya and travel back home next day... while Luca again (Good job scouring!) found a Vexor in plex in Akidagi.

It already became a tradition to have 2 AF to go for tackle. But while we landed... we get a Cormorant :)
I asked Luca let's finish Cormorant first (if we slid, he could slide too and join Vexor). So we make a kill outside of the plex first:
(04:29:45) Akidagi
Cormorant +13.25m

Slid, got tackle, and called the rest of the fleet to join us. Luca lost whole his armor, but was caught by logies.
Vexor +31.91m
Capsule +0.74m

Great fleet, EXCELLENT PERFORMANCE!!! And next is coming!

Stay tuned!
ISK Destroyed: 302,793,939.79
ISK Lost: 0
ISK Delta: 302,793,939.79
Efficiency: 100%

P.S. I will do some analysis on what could be better and what was learned, but the first main thing is that we lacked a tackle. I believe we should not use Fleet Interceptors because they usually indicate a fleet coming on his back. Maybe Dual Prop Comet with some armor resist and nano? Maybe Taranis? Maybe Slicer with Armor plates and bunch of Nanos? All of them would be slowish as for tackle, but still do around 3300m/s cold which is better than Enyo can do.

P.P.S. Guys, please post your comments and thoughts so I will get feedback and work to make next fleet to be a better one. If you wish, feel free to leave confidential feedback via FCC feedback form: https://goo.gl/forms/W6OTiwPMD2Lu1lmL2
User avatar
Xana McBash
Member
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: 2012.08.26 23:24

Re: [The Crazy 8's] T2 Armor Frigates!

Post by Xana McBash »

Those are some very nice kills. Congrats \o/

I remember flying in the previous Crazy 8's Jax organised. Even though we had lots of fun, we never achieved this degree of success.

Seeing this program being revived warms my heart :p
User avatar
Luca Goh
Member
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: 2017.05.18 03:47

Re: [The Crazy 8's] T2 Armor Frigates!

Post by Luca Goh »

Been meaning to comment on this this week, but RL has kept things a bit topsy turvy.

I really enjoyed this fleet, Budda, and the concept behind it. I'm increasingly attracted to flying in small gangs and with groups that have blurred roles and increased individual freedom. I think everyone did a good job communicating especially given that this was the first time many of us have flown together in this kind of a setting. At the same time I did think it was nice to have you in a position of FC so that if a decisive call needed to be made you were there to do it and we all knew to act without debate. I appreciated that you wielded your power judiciously and made it clear that you were open to input, in addition to often proactively seeking advice from others. I think killboard aside just the rhythm and feel of this fleet was very successful. I really hope you host another one like it soon and I'm considering organizing similar outings myself in the hopes of encouraging more loose doctrine small gang activity.
Budda Sereda wrote:Don't remember how did we catch this Svipul, most likely one of us was flashy and lonely on the gate so Svipul thought that is going to be an easy kill... :) did not happen
(03:35:42) Martoh
Svipul +93.23m
I remember this engagement well in no small part because it featured one of my poorest decisions of the night, although thankfully we didn't pay for it in the form of a loss. You and I were both sitting on the gate flashy with the others in the adjacent system when the Svipul landed. The Svipul yellow- and then red-boxed me and I instinctively jumped through.

I shouldn't have done this for several reasons. 1) The Svipul doesn't do enough DPS to pose an imminent threat to my Enyo's 15k+ EHP. 2) We had logi sitting on the other side of the gate. 3) You were on gate to back me up (although I do not remember if he was flashy, so whether gate guns would have been a threat to you or not). 4) I should have communicated with you before making the impulsive decision. Not doing so before acting was bad form and not how I like to fly.

I chalk up 1 to my unfamiliarity with Svipuls as well as to flying the Enyo. 2 is due to the fact that I've never before flown with logi outside of a larger fleet. This came up repeatedly during the roam, in which I made decisions impulsively that didn't take our logi backup into account, although thankfully I was getting the hang of their presence at the end and this led to me staying on grid during the second Vexor fight. 3 and 4 are self-explanatory and just my bad: in retrospect if I would allowed five seconds to communicate with you you would almost assuredly urged me not to jump and I would have stayed on grid, supported and been supported by you, and gotten on the killmail to boot. I really dislike the idea of prioritizing one's own well-being over that of the group / fleet when flying with others, and in this case my impulse was a bit selfish and self-preservationist. I definitely regret it. Fortunately like I said it didn't cost us anything in the end.

Not a big deal necessarily but this was definitely a big learning moment of the roam for me.
Budda Sereda wrote:P.S. I will do some analysis on what could be better and what was learned, but the first main thing is that we lacked a tackle. I believe we should not use Fleet Interceptors because they usually indicate a fleet coming on his back. Maybe Dual Prop Comet with some armor resist and nano? Maybe Taranis? Maybe Slicer with Armor plates and bunch of Nanos? All of them would be slowish as for tackle, but still do around 3300m/s cold which is better than Enyo can do.
I really liked the look of that kiting Comet fit you had posted previously and would be willing to try that out next time. It's tankier (4500ish EHP + reps) and offers higher DPS (~155 DPS out to 18 km with faction ammo) than traditional tackle while still reaching 3700 m/s, which seems to me to be plenty fast for anything that we'll be trying to catch with the Enyos. Personally I think with a group this small we would fair better with that kind of a hybrid tackle/secondary damage dealer than having a pure tackle ship, both for the added DPS and the resiliency to stay on grid. In our SMALL GANG SPEED DATING group Decklin often flew a kitey Hookbill that served this kind of purpose very well which made me like this kind of hybrid tackle/secondary DD. I may be wrong, but I felt like often we weren't missing speed so much as a fit that was more suited to running a long point rather than the scram / web the Enyos are naturally suited towards.

Something with at least four mids would be nice so as to fit point and scram comfortably allowing the Enyos to run down a target easily. What about a Keres? That's my next train once I finish the Hecate this weekend....
User avatar
Budda Sereda
Member
Member
Posts: 1591
Joined: 2016.01.20 02:45
Title: Manager (Fittings), Mentor, Lieutenant, Graduate, Management

Re: [The Crazy 8's] T2 Armor Frigates!

Post by Budda Sereda »

Thanks Luca, glad to hear this type of feedback.

Hookbil or Comet both have plenty of mid slots, but point only option won't work always as the rest of fleet won't catch up. In this format I believe tackle should have scram.

It's good you identified your mistakes, though don't judge yourself too hard.

I will definitely have another similar fleet. Even more, soon I will call same for cruisers. Interesting thing, same stuff was done by Glassi 2 years ago, even before Jax :) Glass I shared that topic, so we will have theory proven by practice.

The only problem is RL: somehow I have less time than in spring, I can barely run fleet once a week, while 5 months ago I did 2-3 per week. Anyway, I am going to book it and keep having fun
Locked