[AAR] Kiting Kestrels 30/08/2017

Locked
User avatar
Adrien Claremont
Member
Member
Posts: 421
Joined: 2013.01.14 17:50
Title: Campus Manager (NSC), FCC Staff, Lieutenant, Graduate, Management

[AAR] Kiting Kestrels 30/08/2017

Post by Adrien Claremont »

The main theme of this fleet turned out to be trying to whore on blingy killmails, which resulting in a some fun and educational situations (for me at least). There were two larger T2 Frig/T3D gang floating around Black Rise that we just didn't have the strength to compete with. Given the opportunity though, we attempted to jump into any fights that they were having to third party and whore. For me, this proved to be a great chance to practice manual piloting as a fleet anchor. The range that the Kestrels can project to also gave me the opportunity to try and string out an enemy fleet that a knew would be slower than us, however that didn't quite go as intended. Finally, although we only used it once, we managed to prove the worth of the Kestrel's alpha strike to engage successfully on a gate.

Roam members (23)
Spoiler
Adrien Claremont - FC
Aeliyah Thor
Alf Saissore - Scout
Altar Kabal
Athena Firefly
B'aldrick Aivoras
Barbara Blast
Breeze One - 2IC
DeanSherman
Decklin Quark Reiger - Scout
Eddie Dante
Felix Jugo
Glen Burney
Kora K - Scout
Megoste
Rikali Laru
Space Warfare Development
The Jojosh
Tiberius Auduin
Trillian Ituin
Wokum
Xana McBash
ashahara
I wanted a higher than usual number of scouts for this fleet to fly ahead of the fleet and steer us towards content. While the main fleet had just undocked from Stacmon, Decklin was having some fun with a Vexor. I'm not sure if this lose was before or after, around this time we attempted to take down a flashy Rook which narrowly managed to escape back through the gate. "More webs on the kiting fits, please!"

(18:41:15) Vlillirier
Caldari Navy Hookbill -27.63m

The main fleet followed and after some games on the gate, we avenged Decklin's loss. Moving to Kinakka, on our outgate a Punisher jumped into us that we were able to successfully alpha clean off the grid. To be fair, I'm thinking he was just a newbro who got caught out. Either way, it was good practice for me at least to see how we could use that tactic to catch other frigates on gates.

(18:55:15) Kinakka, Innia
Vexor +38.31m
Punisher +1.17m

Making our way through Akidagi, we'd caught the attention of a T2 Frigate/T3D gang. We'd danced around the system a little to try and get them off our tails, resulting in them becoming a little spread out due to their different align and warp speeds. We jumped into Nennamaila with elements of them following. Here I wanted to burn 150km away from the gate to avoid gate guns and to see if we could string some of them out. This was working with their light tackle now far in front. Once we'd crossed the 150km mark, I called the closest of their Interceptor Pilots as primary. What I wasn't expecting was for 25% of our own fleet to then turn around and burn back into the danger zone. With the tactical advantage now lost, I called it quits and we moved on.

In Hikkoken we ganked a Comet and an Incursus in a plex. Scouts reported that the T2 gang were fighting a Sleipnir on a gate so we headed over to whore. We needed to use a ping to get close and by the time we moved in, he popped. Decklin managed to get on the kill, however it's a shame more of us couldn't. We quickly made our escape once the Sleipnir went down and warped back to the previous plex we were in, as a Tristan and a Breacher seemed to be having some fun there. We nabbed the Breacher but the Tristan got away

(19:09:48) Nennamaila, Hikkoken
Kestrel -8.39m
Kestrel -7.46m
Federation Navy Comet +47.25m
Incursus +17.41m
Sleipnir +691.42m
Atron -7.61m
Breacher +15.33m

In and around Reitsato, a flashy Vexor and friends warped into us who we took down. Just after, a neutral Malediction landed that JoJosh got overexcited about and engaged resulting in him feeling the wrath of gate guns. Officially an E-Uni fleet now. Decklin was being our -1 scout at this point, keeping an eye to the rear for those T2 gangs. He'd picked up on 2 Jackdaws and an Osprey that appeared to be camping the Okkamon gate. the main fleet had been looking into Tama at this point and with word that a T2 gang had also found those Jackdaws, we were about to head over to try and whore again but we didn't make it in time. The Jackdaws bounced and the Osprey was popped, although with Decklin getting himself on another killmail for us.

(19:22:10) Reitsato, Kedama, Okkamon,
Vexor +49.93m
Stiletto +39.37m
Kestrel +5.84m
Executioner -8.04m
Osprey +23.03m

Scouts then reported that the T2 gang was fighting Snuff in Rakapas at a large. The call was made to YOLO into this to again third party and whore. Various random pilots in the fight decided to pick off some of us off from time to time, and it didn't appear like anything was going down on the field as the Super seemed to target the largest threat, our Kestrel fleet. We bailed without any kills or whoring (Megoste, while joining this fleet purely for this fight, looked to be doing his own thing on grid).

(19:39:47) Rakapas
Orthrus +243.8m
Thrasher -21.28m
Kestrel -11.19m
Slasher -10.48m
Kestrel -11.11m
Kestrel -7.4m
Capsule -0.01m

Scouts had eyes on a small gang of Hurricane Fleet Issues heading into Black Rise which, surprise surprise, managed to find a fight with another T2/T3D gang (this time our good friends HCOOK). We went for the whore, with only one of us managed to get on the kill. There was a second HFI with friends that we went for, with HCOOK now warping off grid. He had some help from an Arty Loki and a Damp fit Scythe (which caught us out). The Loki was able to one shot our frigates from time to time, with me going down straight away. Breeze took over and was popped not soon after, with fleet command falling in Decklin's lap. He did a great job directing the fight. The guys got the HFI into structure however we'd just lost too many Kestrels by this point and couldn't secure the kill.

(19:52:53) Nennamaila
Hurricane Fleet Issue +350.41m
Kestrel -8.81m
Atron -7.69m
Atron -3.67m
Kestrel -7.93m
Kestrel -8.84m
Kestrel -9.58m
Kestrel -12.51m
Kestrel -9.9m
Kestrel -5.87m
Atron -3.75m

With heavy losses, we headed to Ichoriya to reship. While this was going on, we had some random fun on gates, citadels and even Glen in highsec resulting in some fun kills and losses.

(20:05:58) Ichoriya, Akidagi, Aivonen
Kestrel -10.09m
Capsule -0.01m
Svipul +70.86m
Tristan +5.15m
Tristan +13.25m
Condor -6.57m
Exequror -24.24m
Inquisitor +15.43m

Making our way back home now, scouts found a Corax in a small. We went for the gank but it cost us more in return. As we left Pavanakka, two Brutix landed on our in gate. The fleet burned back and jumped after them with Glen securing tackle on "the flashy one". Some slight confusion once the rest of the fleet got on grid as by this point both Brutix were now flashy but we bagged one with the second slipping away.

(20:21:00) Pavanakka
Atron -10.69m
Atron -3.75m
Slasher -4.41m
Corax +7.74m
Kestrel -9.02m
Brutix +84m
Caldari Navy Hookbill -27.5m
Capsule - Genolution 'Auroral' 197-variant +0.01m

After this, a number of fleet members dropped because it was becoming quite late so the fleet just face tanked the gates and made best speed back to Stacmon/Uph.

Stats
ISK Destroyed: 1,725,558,785.39
ISK Lost: 335,540,879.39
ISK Delta: 1,390,017,906
Efficiency: 83.72%

The Good

As FC, I got to practice a lot of separate tactics throughout this fleet such as attempting to string a fleet out, manual piloting as anchor on a busy grid, and attempting to use the Kestrels alpha strike.
Fleet members were hungry for fun and although we lost of a lot of cheap ships, everyone was keen to reship which keep the fleet going
Fleets discipline was on point, as usual
FC comms didn't die

The Bad

FC potentially too slow to get in a tactical position to whore on most of the juicy kills
25% of fleet decided to burn back into an enemy fleet when attempting to kite away. Potentially miscommunication or poor communication by FC.
Probably some other stuff, it's been a busy week at work and my brain is fried writing this. Please comment with your own thoughts and opinions on the fleet.

Thanks to everyone who came out to play.

For those taking part in the CCI, this fleet will count as a LSC participation event: https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/CCI
For those who lost a ship, don't forget that you can claim a hull back through the Uni SRP: https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/SRP#Uni_ ... sements.29
Finally as I am taking part in the FCC, please fill in the FC Feedback Form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... rm?c=0&w=1

Cheers guys
User avatar
Altar Kabal
Member
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 2015.03.21 21:03

Re: [AAR] Kiting Kestrels 30/08/2017

Post by Altar Kabal »

I don't think the 25% of the fleet turning back as we were kiting away was an issue with the FCing. The order to burn away was clear and people were doing so, falling out of range which I suspect was why people decided they had to turn back isn't a very good excuse for doing your own thing mid-fleet.

My understanding is that if something is burning to catch us at say 1500m/s and the faction missiles fly for 5 seconds then the target will be 7.5km closer than when the missle was fired so even if you're a few km over your max range like I was at times your missles may well still hit. Mechanics for missiles are very different to guns where the range is absolute.

Thanks for running it, I thought we got some great fights.
Image[/url]
User avatar
Athena Firefly
Member
Member
Posts: 333
Joined: 2017.08.13 18:29
Title: Sophomore

Re: [AAR] Kiting Kestrels 30/08/2017

Post by Athena Firefly »

I think I might have been one of those who turned back. Here's how I remember that moment (and please DO correct me if I'm wrong here, because my memory is notoriously bad these days!):

We were told to "burn away" by anchoring on the FC with "prop mods on". Then, a few moments later, I thought I heard the order to engage some target, so I did the same thing as before; select the target and press the command to "orbit at" the previously set default of 18 km. That was when my ship turned around and reversed course. From what I remember then (which is probably wrong and mixed up with some other engagement) I couldn't lock and fire due to the range. When hearing yet again that we should be "burning away" and "why are people turning back" etc. I realised this was a mistake, so I aborted that and reversed course again, back to the FC.

My own conclusion about that point in time was that it was a convergence of factors (seemingly several commands given in short order, that might have been misunderstood or perhaps unclear; "unusual" situation with a not-immediately-obvious solution; rookies like me in fleet without experience who did not know what to do, and was too busy to exercise critical thinking at the same time as having my hands full staying on top of all the windows and commands; and so on), that simply caused a confusion in the moment leading to an unexpected result. As such, I don't think anyone could be "blamed" for it, so to speak; it's just one of those things that might happen, because different people have different points-of-view, knowledge, experience and reasoning. That's not the FC's fault!
Mistakes happen, and I know I made one at the time but tried to remedy it when I realised that. But mistakes are what you learn from! (=

Anyway, that's my view on it. Like I said: please do correct me if I'm wrong! (:

Thank you very much, Adrien, for running this event! It was very good and I thought you did an awesome job! :salute:
~~~ I am a leaf on the wind - watch how I soar! ~~~


Teaching Assistant Manager | Fittings Staff
Former: NSC Manager | NSC Hangar Officer
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
Image Image Image Image
User avatar
Glasi Vookto
Member
Member
Posts: 1345
Joined: 2014.05.10 15:34

Re: [AAR] Kiting Kestrels 30/08/2017

Post by Glasi Vookto »

Adrien Claremont wrote: Scouts had eyes on a small gang of Hurricane Fleet Issues heading into Black Rise which, surprise surprise, managed to find a fight with another T2/T3D gang (this time our good friends HCOOK). We went for the whore, with only one of us managed to get on the kill. There was a second HFI with friends that we went for, with HCOOK now warping off grid. He had some help from an Arty Loki and a Damp fit Scythe (which caught us out). The Loki was able to one shot our frigates from time to time, with me going down straight away. Breeze took over and was popped not soon after, with fleet command falling in Decklin's lap. He did a great job directing the fight. The guys got the HFI into structure however we'd just lost too many Kestrels by this point and couldn't secure the kill.
Lol, seems like you encountered Nika Noiser's latest invention in terms of logi, the Damp Scimi :P
Btw, he was baiting you on that HFI in structure ;) video from his POV here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXxRXSLtJtY
User avatar
Adrien Claremont
Member
Member
Posts: 421
Joined: 2013.01.14 17:50
Title: Campus Manager (NSC), FCC Staff, Lieutenant, Graduate, Management

Re: [AAR] Kiting Kestrels 30/08/2017

Post by Adrien Claremont »

Sorry for the late reply guys, glad to see people offering both sides of situation regarding that engagement.

I guess it comes down to experience in anticipating how the fight is likely to play out. Like Altar said, I thought my direct to align to the sun would have been enough and the thought that anyone would do anything other than that, certainly once we'd already burned 150km while aligned, just did not come to me. However having read Athena's point of view, I can clearly see how the confusion came into play as I did say at the start of the fleet that the default obit range when fighting would be 18km. What I meant by that though is the range I'd like people to orbit when we fighting slow, single or stationary targets. I've made a note to explain that better next time. There is a lesson there for everyone involved I guess.

Like I mentioned in the AAR, my intention was to burn out past 150km. This was to firstly stretch their fleet out as they tried to catch us, which did work, and secondly allow us to engage freely without gate guns. By staying aligned, we would have had an instant warp out if needed and could dictate our speed to let them catch up just enough to keep fighting. By having people turning back, while it did allow them to grab a couple of cheap kestrel kills, the main downside is that they would have grouped up and stopped trying to chase us. Our tactical position would be lost because we'd then have to turn around and burn back in to an organised, much tougher fleet. I didn't see that working out at all, which was why we bailed. Hopefully I've explained that well enough for people to understand what I was trying to do.

Thanks for that link, Glasi. It's always good to see things from the other side, however it's a shame people rarely leave their comms chatter over their videos.

Never not take bait!
User avatar
Glasi Vookto
Member
Member
Posts: 1345
Joined: 2014.05.10 15:34

Re: [AAR] Kiting Kestrels 30/08/2017

Post by Glasi Vookto »

Adrien Claremont wrote:Thanks for that link, Glasi. It's always good to see things from the other side, however it's a shame people rarely leave their comms chatter over their videos.
Comms were most likely in Russian so it wouldn't help a bunch :D. And there's no shame in losing to ships those guys, they're one of the best micro-gang roaming corp in Eve and Nika himself was the captain and main theorycrafter of the winning AT team this year. They can usually kill a lot more with less, ask the NSC ;)
User avatar
Decklin Quark Reiger
Member
Member
Posts: 508
Joined: 2016.04.21 16:24
Title: LSC Combat Officer, Fittings staff, Lieutenant Junior Grade, Graduate

Re: [AAR] Kiting Kestrels 30/08/2017

Post by Decklin Quark Reiger »

Yeah, watching that Scimi pilot, I was very jealous of his ability ;)
Image
Locked