Police Academy XI: Talwars - When Bob Giveth

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Laser Skaron
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Police Academy XI: Talwars - When Bob Giveth

Post by Laser Skaron »

Thank you all for joining as we begin our story for this rather uneventful night, and special thanks for Troven, who found us a mythical path into sov null so we could try our best to delete some ratters and find random fights. Why null? mainly because talwars don't like to fight in plexes.

We end up finding our way to Etherium Reach where we blob a few poor miners but fail to catch anything else. Bots be smart, bots run away!

(18:08:59) J130602, D-IZT9
Procurer +24.19m
Mackinaw +226.59m

But, among our fighting, after taking out that Mackinaw, we see a 15 man spike in local in D-IZT9. I panic a bit, hadn't seen when those guys showed up, just realised at some point when I checked local that there's a ton of people in system. We scramble so we aren't sitting ducks and jump next door, as we burn a few tacs, safes, and wait to see what forms up to greet us. Silence follows (not on comms, just in space). We get eyes back into D-IZT9 and don't see a fleet undocking. We then wait, and decide to head into Malpais up to the closest next ratting pocket, and return to check on this mysterious fleet on our way back.

We find nothing on our travels, and return on the D-IZT9 gate eventually, to gain intel on the enemy fleet. This enemy fleet is gone, but as we wait, a wild Tengu appears. And that wild Tengu aggresses. Now, we were prepared to jump through and chase, to anchor up and pull range, to fight to the last man, to warp off when we get primaried... We were not prepared to see him vanish in 1 tick after only 9k damage. We were also not prepared for him to drop 1bil worth in loot.

(19:01:27) 89-JPE
Tengu +1963.28m

At this stage, I had two options. Wait for someone to avenge this gift of a kill, or head back into lowsec. Would have loved to fight here and try see what we can engage, but the systems were dead and we had already spent about an hour. And we had already encountered a "fake" fleet. Thus we head into low and try to find some content.

We drop a couple of frigates here and there, but our first "engagement" when a small gang flies by us in Ald. We get intel there's a Cerberus on the other side of the gate (and recommendations in the fleet suggest 60k EHP. We manage to catch a a Slicer flying through here and we test our teeth on a Vexor (who survives in half armor). We decide we can't take on that Cerberus and bail.

I feel like I missed a few opportunities here, could have probably chased back through the gate and pick up a few extra stragglers.

(19:18:55) Vlillirier, Aldranette
Atron +0.4m
Malediction -52.9m
Imperial Navy Slicer +31.15m

Finally, we have a go at a Proteus outside a medium plex. Now I get intel that he's roughly aligned to the sun, ~120 off the plex, but decide to ignore that thinking he'd spook when we spike local. He doesn't flinch, but we also land 250km off him, outside that plex. We try and burn towards him, but without prevail as he's moving ~15-20% faster than us. We push our luck too far, hoping he'd make some stupid mistakes but bail after he takes two of us down. This is shortly followed by the end of the fleet, caused by RL requiring me to log off for the night.

(19:34:39) Nennamaila
Malediction -47.57m
Talwar -13.59m

Hope you all enjoyed, despite the relative lack of content.

PS. Skipping ISK stats, it seems weird to add them in when we got a free 2 bil kill.
Last edited by Laser Skaron on 2017.08.01 04:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Decklin Quark Reiger
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Re: Police Academy XI: Talwars - When Bob Giveth

Post by Decklin Quark Reiger »

So, I talked with that Proteus pilot, from Exodus after the roam. I wanted find out how long his neut was, and to learn from his perspective what I could do better in the future. He had small deadspace neut that has a 9km optimal and 14 km max range.

So although I managed to spiral under his rail guns, when I went in for a tight orbit to hold a scram on him and let the fleet catch up, I was still taking damage from v his augmented warriors, and running my ancillary repairer to cope with that. Then he was able to neut me out in a cycle or two, and I was in big trouble. He also had a faction point that reached out to 38 km, so I struggled to escape, just barely managing to pulse my MWD once to pull range, but since I was trying to maintain transversal, I couldn't find anything to align out to in time. By the time I was out of his point range, the augmented warriors finished me off, because I hadn't aligned to anything to warp yet.

In future, what I could have done here was to wait a bit before going in for the scram. I could make one or two scram passes, just getting close enough to land an overheated scram ( just over 13 km), and then coast outside his neut range. This would shut off his MWD, giving our Talwars a little time to catch up, with overheated MWDs, and for secondary tackle to get closer as well. Doing this once or twice would probably be about all I could manage before I'd have to warp off again, but would be better than going for the tight orbit that I did, when there was no secondary tackle on him, and our DPS couldn't apply yet.

Basically, I was too overeager to get tackle, and should have waited a bit for the right time to go in, and used a fly-by approach, instead of the tight orbit.
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Re: Police Academy XI: Talwars - When Bob Giveth

Post by Luca Goh »

Thanks for stepping in and running the fleet, Laser. This was my first time flying Talwars and I really enjoyed it as a change of pace to the low sec faction warfare space fleets I'm more familiar with. It was also fun passing through (and getting kills in) three types of space within a single fleet; I've certainly never done that before, and it lent the fleet a unique sense of variety, which itself was helped by your fast pacing. The fact that we were always on the move and often in pursuit of at least the suggestion of a target kept things lively despite what looks like a relatively spare killboard.

Just getting a pair of kills in VLI and ALD definitely doesn't reflect the flurry of activity we had going on there, with lots of flashies landing on the gate as well as the Atrons in plexes, etc. I assume our scouts were elsewhere and we had no tackle on the Vexor, enabling it to get away. Was it that they were scouting elsewhere when the Vexor happened to arrive at our gate? I just can't remember the particular circumstances.

The Proteus fight definitely felt like pushing our luck given its distance out from us, but I also don't mind being a bit ambitious. You never know until you try (like trying to blob a Tengu, for example).

During the Proteus fight and at a few other points I found myself having difficulty keeping up with the anchor despite continuously running my prop mod. Was the anchor overheating? I was not, and don't remember any calls to do so. Perhaps I just need to get gooder with the skillz.

Finally, I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on what campus this fleet should be considered for for purposes of the Cross Campus Initiative. I had initially thought NSC given the focus on null space, but we staged from UPH and spent a bit of time in low so I'm uncertain.
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Re: Police Academy XI: Talwars - When Bob Giveth

Post by Decklin Quark Reiger »

Luca Goh wrote: Just getting a pair of kills in VLI and ALD definitely doesn't reflect the flurry of activity we had going on there, with lots of flashies landing on the gate as well as the Atrons in plexes, etc. I assume our scouts were elsewhere and we had no tackle on the Vexor, enabling it to get away. Was it that they were scouting elsewhere when the Vexor happened to arrive at our gate? I just can't remember the particular circumstances.
Yes, I was scouting ahead, and I think Alf and Troven were as well. Even if we were there though, the Vexor managed to burn back to the gate and jump through, in about half armour, rather than warp off. It's possible a scram could have helped us catch him, but we were all out scouting. A Hyena here would be very useful, to web him down.

So given that we couldn't kill him in 1-3 strikes, it was even more unlikely that we'd be able to volley off the Cerberus ( who would have a high shield resistance against our explosive missiles, and would be able to shoot father than we can).
Luca Goh wrote: Finally, I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on what campus this fleet should be considered for for purposes of the Cross Campus Initiative. I had initially thought NSC given the focus on null space, but we staged from UPH and spent a bit of time in low so I'm uncertain.
I'd say that for the purposes of CCI that this was a low-sec campus event, since we formed at Uphallant.
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Re: Police Academy XI: Talwars - When Bob Giveth

Post by Luca Goh »

Decklin Quark Reiger wrote:Yes, I was scouting ahead, and I think Alf and Troven were as well. Even if we were there though, the Vexor managed to burn back to the gate and jump through, in about half armour, rather than warp off. It's possible a scram could have helped us catch him, but we were all out scouting. A Hyena here would be very useful, to web him down.
Ah, cheers; I had not gathered that he had jumped through the gate.
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Re: Police Academy XI: Talwars - When Bob Giveth

Post by Laser Skaron »

Luca Goh wrote:Just getting a pair of kills in VLI and ALD definitely doesn't reflect the flurry of activity we had going on there, with lots of flashies landing on the gate as well as the Atrons in plexes, etc. I assume our scouts were elsewhere and we had no tackle on the Vexor, enabling it to get away. Was it that they were scouting elsewhere when the Vexor happened to arrive at our gate? I just can't remember the particular circumstances.

...

During the Proteus fight and at a few other points I found myself having difficulty keeping up with the anchor despite continuously running my prop mod. Was the anchor overheating? I was not, and don't remember any calls to do so. Perhaps I just need to get gooder with the skillz.

Finally, I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on what campus this fleet should be considered for for purposes of the Cross Campus Initiative. I had initially thought NSC given the focus on null space, but we staged from UPH and spent a bit of time in low so I'm uncertain.
Yeah, there was quite a bit of content walking by us that I wasn't sure how to capitalize on, party due to being a tiny bit rusty, not having ran a fleet in a month or so.

Navigation and Acceleration Control have a pretty big impact on your speed. If my math was right, that's a 10-20% speed difference from level 3 to 5 in those skills if I remember correctly, it's actually very common in a uni fleet to get spread out while anchoring.

This was an LSC event.
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Re: Police Academy XI: Talwars - When Bob Giveth

Post by Breeze One »

Thanks for picking this up Laser :) glad you guys got some good content!
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Re: Police Academy XI: Talwars - When Bob Giveth

Post by Troven Smalvard »

Decklin Quark Reiger wrote:
Luca Goh wrote: Just getting a pair of kills in VLI and ALD definitely doesn't reflect the flurry of activity we had going on there, with lots of flashies landing on the gate as well as the Atrons in plexes, etc. I assume our scouts were elsewhere and we had no tackle on the Vexor, enabling it to get away. Was it that they were scouting elsewhere when the Vexor happened to arrive at our gate? I just can't remember the particular circumstances.
Yes, I was scouting ahead, and I think Alf and Troven were as well.
Nah, Troven had died to gate guns not long previously (yay twas a true uni fleet \o/ spend 83.6% of the roam in null and still die to gate guns) in a completely avoidable and stoopid manner, reinforced learning point for myself

I was then trying to get the Drake on the station to aggress me as I was still flashy but to prevent him docking up so you's could come blap him....
... it didn't work :(

Nice job herding the cats Laser, good commands for lock and volley ( even if a few people were trigger happy a little :) )
you kept people moving at good pace as we were traversing the gaps between pockets
and kept comms going and relaxed in the quiet moments
and happy you just told me to stop narrating everything i was doing as it was confusing. If i was for you can only imagine how much any newer newbros would think i was mad gibberish, and i know i often talk too much :oops:

I also realised after i was giving commands again like "warp to troven" as opposed to just letting you know updated intel and letting you action on it. I need calling out on this more.


The skill gap makes a big difference early when everyone is low SP when your looking to move fast and project, guys keep training your BLAP skills and these fleet will get better and better, then have a look at what support skills you can top up quickly before the inevitable lust for BC's and BS's takes over!

as you said not the best target rich pocket, but what we could get in short time
coupled with i've not really left J space hunting for a while so was rusty ranging targets with local intel, was getting better towards the end annoyed i missed the VNI before we came back to low.

will get a better intel pack for next time in advance for the scouts ;)
any FC's wanting similar WH tunnels in the future feel free to hit me up in advance on slack, I know you can all find your own but spread the load since you all seem to be running lots of fleets which is awesome and there is already enough prep and admin to do
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Re: Police Academy XI: Talwars - When Bob Giveth

Post by Laser Skaron »

Troven Smalvard wrote:and happy you just told me to stop narrating everything i was doing as it was confusing. If i was for you can only imagine how much any newer newbros would think i was mad gibberish, and i know i often talk too much :oops:
I hope I was specific enough in that instance, I like to keep comms going when nothing is happening and I'm totally cool with my scouts having a ton of agency unless I ask for specific things I want accomplished. In that scenario I was just confused between signature names and system names in null. I had to keep alt tabbing to check the map whenever you called out 3 letters just to figure out if you were moving between systems or checking sites.
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Re: Police Academy XI: Talwars - When Bob Giveth

Post by Troven Smalvard »

^yep you were, i know what you meant.
I was brain auto piloting as shotgun rules calling a site to try and avoid everyone going same.

Just get in, find something, point it, shout, w's, murder death kill :)
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Re: Police Academy XI: Talwars - When Bob Giveth

Post by Eddie Dante »

Laser Skaron wrote: I had to keep alt tabbing to check the map whenever you called out 3 letters just to figure out if you were moving between systems or checking sites.
Perhaps youve got a tablet or even a phone to show dotlan? Got one lying in front of my keyboard, quite handy.

As the others have said, good, clear FC'ing, being not a native English speaker I like it when people are easy to understand over comms.

Still confused though why we couldnt try to take on the cerberus. Multiple volleys wouldve been needed, but that itself isnt a problem. Did we expect he could move away? We had tackle with scrams right? Did we expect he would wipe out half the fleet?
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Re: Police Academy XI: Talwars - When Bob Giveth

Post by Azrael Feanorian »

We hadn't much content, true, but it was a really fun fleet.
As already said, we were always moving, passing 3 different kinds of space (and getting some kills in each of them), chasing targets or fleeing threats. all in all never boring.
And with a surprise gift.

What to say? Had fun, thanks FC! :)
Laser Skaron wrote:I had to keep alt tabbing to check the map whenever you called out 3 letters just to figure out if you were moving between systems or checking sites.
About the alt-tabbing, Laser, try and check this mobile app https://eveeye.com/ (both for Android and iOS), I have it always running on my tablet, beside the PC screen, and strongly reduced the alt-tabs. It's nice both for navigation and for intel about systems (kills, jumps...). We were talking about it also with Union.
Maybe you already know it...

Thanks again
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Re: Police Academy XI: Talwars - When Bob Giveth

Post by Decklin Quark Reiger »

Eddie Dante wrote: Still confused though why we couldnt try to take on the cerberus. Multiple volleys wouldve been needed, but that itself isnt a problem. Did we expect he could move away? We had tackle with scrams right? Did we expect he would wipe out half the fleet?
Assuming the Cerberus was fit with rapid light missiles, (like this: https://zkillboard.com/kill/63783277/ ) he can fire father than we can lock, by a good 20km.

So, he could kill our fast tackle as we burned in the 300km towards him at his ping, and then also kite outside the max range of our Talwars, and kill the Talwars one by one.

The Talwars' survival depends on being able to shoot farther than our opponents, and being able to either kite away, or volley through them in one or two strikes. We couldn't do either of those things against the Cerberus.

Even if we had started at zero on top of him, we wouldn't have enough alpha strike damage to kill him before he could escape (like we saw with the Vexor). At an optimistic 4k DPS, with 20k alpha strike for our fleet, it would take 3-4 volleys (20-30s from first volley to last) to kill him. This is plenty of time for him to erase our fast tackle and warp away, or even simply overheat his MWD to 3km/s, pull range, and pick us off with impunity.

Plus he had 3-4 allies if I'm not mistaken.

I'm all for taking on challenging fights, but this was just a case of the Cerberus being a very very good counter to our fleet composition. ( Assuming he's sensibly fit and makes good piloting decisions - which isn't always the case, admittedly).

Now, it's entirely possible we could have tried it and succeeded.. but my own gut reaction at the time was to advise against it because of his tank and longer range.
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Re: Police Academy XI: Talwars - When Bob Giveth

Post by Eddie Dante »

Ah, I missed the part where he was 300km off. Now it starts making sense. Thanks for the explanation :)
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