[WAR] OP : Short Trip @ 2017-05-07

[Omnicious Shardani]

I'm quite new here, so I'm still digesting all of the info on this forum post. This was my first official fleet battle.

It was so exciting, and I learned a lot. Thank you all senior members that made all of this happen! I look forward to many more.

I put together a video/short montage of clips from the battle (some of them are out of sequence, but I think you will see what I did here).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br22bOgVj7o

Please try not to laugh too much at my obvious lack of fleet skills. I have a lot to learn about the fleet window, targeting and watch lists, etc. I was quite unprepared in many ways tbh, but I'm learning quickly.

As a freshman, I'm not sure if it's appropriate to use the Eve-Uni logos in this manner or not. I asked around, and Budda referred me here. I'll remove it if not appropriate. Ideally though, with your permission, I'd like to vlog my positive experiences here at the university as I grow and learn.

Cheers,

Omni o7

[Decklin Quark Reiger]

Titus beat me to it, but yeah, Coaxter, uni logi can stay safety green when repping uni DD who only fire on war target anything. The reason is, the war target anything is already able to fire on the uni logi.

Similarly, *if* the uni DD attack a suspect OOC logi *and* the uni logi attacks the OOC logi, *before* repping the uni DD, then they can rep while keeping safety green​. Obviously this isn't really practical, but is enlightening to understand the mechanic.

[Ersin Oghuz]

Maybe having combat drones in Logi Ships and making them attack on OOC logi as soon as they become flashy can be option.

[Mattikus Pathfinder]

The logi have to have a LE timer with the same people that the target of their reps does, which means that the logi would have to (basically) be permanently cycling their drones through the enemy fleet, while still responding to requests for reps. It might work, but it will make the logi job a whole lot harder, and as soon as one of them gets it wrong, they all have to go to yellow safeties anyway.

[Kyle Hargrove]

Thanks a lot for the kind words, Budda! It's really, really appreciated.

I think most of the useful feedback has been said already, and the core learning of this fight appears to have been in a large-scale application of a doctrine. The value of this should not be dismissed, especially for new players and aspiring FCs.

All in all, quite sad I missed this :|

Looking forward to the next fight, and hopefully I'll be able to join in!

[Korros Kolada]

The logi have to have a LE timer with the same people that the target of their reps does

Maybe we could assist damage drones to someone and pick up timers from that? Would be easier than juggling damage, repairs, and the cap chain all at the same time. We are noobs after all.

I prefer to use logi drones, but dealing with timers properly could make the difference between victory and defeat if they bring neutral dd/ewar.

[Mattikus Pathfinder]

The logi have to have a LE timer with the same people that the target of their reps does

Maybe we could assist damage drones to someone and pick up timers from that? Would be easier than juggling damage, repairs, and the cap chain all at the same time. We are noobs after all.

I prefer to use logi drones, but dealing with timers properly could make the difference between victory and defeat if they bring neutral dd/ewar.

That would mean everyone on grid using a hostile module would have to target exactly the same people (so no spread points etc). Or the logi would have to set their drones to assist the person that's just called for reps before they can activate the rep module, and hope that they pick up the same timers from that, which doesn't really help dealing with heavy alpha damage from the enemy.

[Raido Kudonen]

Drone assist is really screwy in space where Crimewatch is active. Better to either accept the suspect timers. Best to bring a separate (often out-of-corp) force to take down the neutral logi.

[Michael Alderman]

Was a fun fight. We made them retreat, and got the POCOs. All strategic objectives were met. I consider that a resounding victory.

Most of the important stuff has been covered. I'll just say that, from my perspective, range control and anchoring were the largest problems (for me). I was in a CDI Vexor, which was certainly approved for use, here. But I was usually out of range for using my neuts, so my tiered up BLAP Vexor would likely have worked better, given the conditions.

I think to make effective use of a fleet with both BLAP Vexors (with rails in the high slots) and CDI Vexors (with neuts in the highs), perhaps they would need to be kept at different ranges from the targets, and might then need two anchors. Rails don't work so well close up at neut ranges, but the neuts need to be very close to work well. That might be a greater disadvantage than just bringing all BLAPs. Still, shame not to make use of neuts. I suppose BLAPs with blasters would harmonise the ranges better, but that's not what we have going (and probably has other issues, particularly against blaster fit Proteus).

Also, being more clear about what they should fit in the mids would have been helpful. I had a web and scram, but I think a point, with the longer range, would have been preferable.

That last is just my pondering on the two fits and how they worked together. Certainly, the thoughts of those with more experience than I (you know, almost everybody) on that would be interesting to me.

I suspect that just calling "bring BLAPs with X in the mids" would pretty much have solved the issue. Glad to hear up-tiered fits are being worked on. No way I'm taking out T1 armour or T1 drones when I can use T2, personally. I'll happily take the small loss in ISK for being harder to kill, and contributing more damage, without making myself look like a more tempting primary.

Thanks to the FCs, and everyone who showed up!

[Neonen Enderas (Biomassed 2017.06.23)]

Was a fun fight. We made them retreat, and got the POCOs. All strategic objectives were met. I consider that a resounding victory.

You even won the ISK war so.. yeah? It was a win.

Most of the important stuff has been covered. I'll just say that, from my perspective, range control and anchoring were the largest problems (for me). I was in a CDI Vexor, which was certainly approved for use, here. But I was usually out of range for using my neuts, so my tiered up BLAP Vexor would likely have worked better, given the conditions.

Problem: see your next paragraph.

I think to make effective use of a fleet with both BLAP Vexors (with rails in the high slots) and CDI Vexors (with neuts in the highs), perhaps they would need to be kept at different ranges from the targets, and might then need two anchors. Rails don't work so well close up at neut ranges, but the neuts need to be very close to work well. That might be a greater disadvantage than just bringing all BLAPs. Still, shame not to make use of neuts. I suppose BLAPs with blasters would harmonise the ranges better, but that's not what we have going (and probably has other issues, particularly against blaster fit Proteus).

You said, you had problems with the different ranges. So the idea about having two anchors sounds great. Here is the problem. A. You have two different doctrines with two different ideas. BLAP was made to be used in a wide array of situations. Be it low/null roams, highsec fights. You name it, you can bring it(exeptions may apply). B. Coordinating 2 different engagement ranges while you still have logi that wants to rep both groups. Nightmares ensured.

Swapping the rails to blasters wouldn't really work, because then it's not a BLAP doctrine anymore. Furthermore, there were at least 50 Vexors on contract for BLAP. So you could have bought a pre-fitted ship easily. The discussion about "Should the FC go for two different doctrines in one fleet" has been had multiple times and at all times the result was a firm "No.".

Also, being more clear about what they should fit in the mids would have been helpful. I had a web and scram, but I think a point, with the longer range, would have been preferable.

This goes back to the problem mentionened above.

That last is just my pondering on the two fits and how they worked together. Certainly, the thoughts of those with more experience than I (you know, almost everybody) on that would be interesting to me.

They don't work really well together. That's it.

I suspect that just calling "bring BLAPs with X in the mids" would pretty much have solved the issue. Glad to hear up-tiered fits are being worked on. No way I'm taking out T1 armour or T1 drones when I can use T2, personally. I'll happily take the small loss in ISK for being harder to kill, and contributing more damage, without making myself look like a more tempting primary.

The T2 fits are lurking on the forums somewhere, they might also be on fleet-up as well. Someone has to import the fits

[Michael Alderman]

Yep, Neonen Enderas, just having BLAPs, and the FC stating what they want in the mids from the ones that come with a purchased BLAP Vexor, does seem like the way to go. Thanks for your input.

[Ajax Andrard]

Hey,

Bit delayed but just wanted to say that this was probably one of the most fun events I have done while in E-Uni. Wanted to thank everyone involved with planning and carrying it out.

Plus I got final hit on a POCO which was kinda exciting.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/62099453/

Cheers,
Ajax