[LSC] Shield (Assault) Frigates - 3 engagements

[Breeze One]

Funny you should mention Baelthorn - we had this discussion on Slack yesterday and this is in process pf being set up

[Budda Sereda]

After comments about Ishkur and recommendation to look into Jaguar or better Harpy, I asked Raido about that, see below the result of the conversation which touched quite a lot of things about Assault Frigates, briefly roaming topic. With some minor edits.

Is a good reading!

Budda Sereda [5:01 PM]
Is this a good fit for low-sec fleet roaming? Can be better? (need 1% CPU implant)

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[Harpy, Harpy - Fleet PvP]

Damage Control II
Vortex Compact Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Co-Processor II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Initiated Compact Warp Disruptor
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Small Shield Extender II

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[Empty High slot]

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

[5:02]
@raido
"my" that Ishkur has better speed and DPS, though lower EHP.
Why Ishkur is "just terrible"?

Mrakling
[5:02 PM]
Small Shield Extenders are shit

Raido Kudonen [5:03 PM]
^

Budda Sereda [5:03 PM]
That's Ishkur we are speaking about, just for reference: https://zkillboard.com/kill/62101376/
zkillboard.com
Ishkur | Budda Sereda | Killmail
Budda Sereda (EVE University) lost their Ishkur in Akidagi (Black Rise). Final Blow by Xeno Cephal (Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry) flying in a Gila. Total Value: 33,313,455.30 ISK


Raido Kudonen [5:03 PM]
there's a weird corner case where you use SSEs with arty svipuls

[5:03]
but it's a corner case

[5:04]
Ishkurs are bad because most of their bonuses are useless, they have a really bad fitting for an AF (and AFs as a ship class have some of the worst fitting of any class), and they have no particular niche.

[5:04]
(and since AFs are so bad in general, you really need some kind of useful niche to be worth anything)

Mrakling
[5:05 PM]
Considering that T3D hulls are roughly at the same price there's zero reasons to use AFs

Budda Sereda [5:05 PM]
AFs quicker

Raido Kudonen [5:05 PM]
no they're not

[5:05]
they warp faster

[5:06]
otherwise they're inferior in mobility

Budda Sereda [5:06 PM]
You saying that 50M confessor is better than 40M Harpy?

Mrakling
[5:06 PM]
Confessors are 30m atm

[5:06]
Hull price

Raido Kudonen [5:07 PM]
literally the only thing AFs do better than T3Ds is contest small size FW plexes

Budda Sereda [5:07 PM]
I mean with fit

Raido Kudonen [5:07 PM]
and that's because T3Ds are literally unable to enter those plexes.

Mrakling
[5:07 PM]
Well you don't have to bling the fessors

Budda Sereda [5:07 PM]
unable? what you mean? I believe all Ds fit small?

Mrakling
[5:07 PM]
The fact that they have more slots to fit is well

[5:09]
The problem with that Harpy fit is that it's so ridiculously hard to fit, it loses either damage or tank. And you can just use rail Cormorants instead.

[5:09]
Or Beam Confessors

Budda Sereda [5:10 PM]
I did for SSE, needs only 1% CPU implant (edited)

Raido Kudonen [5:10 PM]
no, T3Ds only go into medium plexes

[5:10]

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[Harpy, blarpy]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

1MN Afterburner II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler

Light Ion Blaster II, Null S
Light Ion Blaster II, Null S
Light Ion Blaster II, Null S
Light Ion Blaster II, Null S
[Empty High slot]

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

Raido Kudonen [5:10 PM]
that is how you fit a fleet harpy

[5:10]
it's basically a magic merlin with more DPS and tank

[5:10]
can use void/AM ofc

Budda Sereda [5:10 PM]
i like kiting staff

Raido Kudonen [5:10 PM]
AFs are terrible at kiting

[5:11]
they typically have lower base velocity than T1 frigates

Budda Sereda [5:12 PM]
Raido, how did you learn all this stuff? Did you meticulously compare ships fits? Or "just keep flying and learning"?

Raido Kudonen [5:12 PM]
both

[5:12]
I FCed at least once, usually more than once, every week for over a year in E-Uni

[5:12]
I flew with other FCs almost anytime there was a fleet

[5:13]
I spend a lot of time in pyfa

[5:13]
etc

[5:14]

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[Harpy, rail fleet]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Alumel-Wired Enduring Sensor Booster
Alumel-Wired Enduring Sensor Booster
Tracking Computer II

150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
[Empty High slot]

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I

[5:14]
That's what a "kiting" harpy looks like

[5:14]
but you should just use cormorants

[5:14]
because they're cheaper and do better DPS at same range

[5:14]
and if you get caught you're going to die in either one

Budda Sereda [5:16 PM]
It looks like for you kiting means 50km and more...?

Raido Kudonen [5:17 PM]
it's not actually a kiting doctrine

[5:17]
it's a projection doctrine

[5:17]
you warp to a ping, shoot people who can't shoot back, warp away

Budda Sereda [5:17 PM]
doesn't work for plexes ...

Raido Kudonen [5:17 PM]
yes

[5:17]
you don't really use these in lowsec

[5:18]
projection doctrines in lowsec are almost never useful

Budda Sereda [5:18 PM]
for me nul-sec has problem with content

[5:18]
at least Syndicate in 100-500 EVE Time

Raido Kudonen [5:18 PM]
that's because you're not going to the right places

[5:18]
why the hell are you going to Syndicate? nobody lives there

Budda Sereda [5:18 PM]
NSC...

Mrakling
[5:18 PM]
You won't find anything in Syndicate now that INIT moved

Budda Sereda [5:18 PM]
even 2 months ago

Mrakling
[5:19 PM]
You can go over to Fade etc

Raido Kudonen [5:19 PM]
you go to Fade or Pure Blind to kill horde

[5:19]
you can't shoot them

[5:19]
the most time NSC should ever spend in Syndicate to roam is the few jumps required to get to MHC

Budda Sereda [5:20 PM]
fade and blind... hey just undock 50 ships on you in 2 mins... you can't fight them with uni numbers

Raido Kudonen [5:20 PM]
then you go through Placid to get to Cloud Ring, through Alsavoinon, or to Pure Blind, through Mantenault

[5:20]
in 2 minutes you can kill a lot of miners

Budda Sereda [5:20 PM]
MHC?

Raido Kudonen [5:21 PM]
that's what kiting fleets are for, staying mobile so you don't get destroyed

Budda Sereda [5:21 PM]
oh, system name, MHC-R3, got it

Raido Kudonen [5:21 PM]
the Uni has no real ability to contest grids

[5:22]
at best you can use Vexors to kill a dumb cap pilot

[5:24]
the uni won't do anything

[5:24]
batphone your friends in nearby alliances

[5:24]
the other place you can go for content in nullsec

[5:24]
is Provi/Catch

[5:24]
you use wormholes for that

[5:26]
so you need to follow reddit or some other way of keeping up with the meta and who holds space where, and who lives where

Budda Sereda [5:26 PM]
looks like for me this is a bit premature

Raido Kudonen [5:27 PM]
not really, this is all stuff that FCs should know

Budda Sereda [5:28 PM]
I feel I still need to learn materials (ships, fits, doctrines)

[5:32]
anyway, to your first question, look at the Ishkur's bonuses

[5:33]
it has no damage bonus to drones

[5:33]
so its drones do no more damage than a Tristan's

[5:33]
it's also slower than a Tristan, closer to a Maulus Navy Issue

Raido Kudonen [5:41 PM]
closest thing to a useful Ishkur fit is a scram kitey rail Ishkur

[5:41]
and it's pretty inferior to other scram kitey solo AFs

[5:42]
it's a slower, tankier, higher DPS Incursus, which is all very well until you realize that a solo Ishkur is fighting Hawks and solo command destroyers and Thrashers

Budda Sereda [5:45 PM]
I remember either you or Razha had quite a few AF frigates roaming and sieged Tama... DO you remember? Why was AFs those times?

Raido Kudonen [5:46 PM]
Yeah, not a lot of people had T3Ds trained (well, plenty, but fewer than AFs) and we would roll through small plexes

[5:46]
but for that we used armor AFs, or I did

[5:46]
shield AFs are Harpies or go home

[5:47]
for armor you have a little bit of flexibility

[5:48]
basically "no Caldari", but you can use the Wolf, either Amarr frigate, or the Enyo quite well