[AAR] Tuesday Nullsec Roam #6 - Tomlin and Shaemus make a nemesis

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Tomlin
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[AAR] Tuesday Nullsec Roam #6 - Tomlin and Shaemus make a nemesis

Post by Tomlin »

Today was our first run at KSG for the Tuesday fleets, and my first time FCing it. We formed up in Jita with 22 people (21 + a stabber alt for bank robbing). I did warn people against flying too much bling because of this being a primarily learning fleet, but we had some people with heavy pockets that wanted to have fun still.

We spent some time in space out in Jita just practicing our positioning and making sure people knew where to optimally be with lines of tackle, anti-tackle, and DPS. I think the fleet did real well with this, and felt good about our chances.

We took a noise filament, which took us into Branch. I opted to take things slow to start, so we robbed a bank with 45mil in it while we set up on grid and practiced our positioning. Nobody came to contest it, so we moved on. Our timers were up, but there was another ~50 mil bank 3 jumps out, so I said we'd take that first then filament again. Mosq and Archon found a Golem in there though, so they tackled it and we came to join the fun.

Imagine my surprise when I saw the name, as this was the same Golem we had failed to kill on a Merlin fleet ~ a month ago. We joined the fight, and unfortunately it got a MJD off and then warped out to a belt. I called for people to hit belts and try to find it. Alex EpicPotato pointed it in a belt and called that out, so we all warped to him and started fighting it.

Unfortunately it took out most of the fleet, and we had to call a scatter and for people to get out. Details in the reflections section at the end of this post. Overall that pilot has bested my fleets solo twice now, and also killed Shaemus twice, so we've got a feud with him now.
(I did message him after and he's a nice enough guy; I told him I hope we can have a 3rd fight at some point. He said he's always around Branch ratting in that Golem, so welcomes it.)

Here's the BR of that: https://br.evetools.org/br/667225aadf10ab0012afbad5

~7 people survived, so Francie led them back through Pochven while the rest of us got back to Jita.

We reformed for a second round with 18 people strong still. This time I told people not to fly the big BCs, so we'd be more small-medium ships. We took a signal filament and landed in SW Perrigen Falls. We started moving and Mosq found some retrievers in a belt. We got both of them, even though they ejected their pods and got out.

As we were going in to kill them, we had noticed a Hel doing a CRAB in system, and that there was 250mil in the bank, so we decided to rob the bank and see what they'd do. We formed up on the bank, sent in the stabber, and waited. They slowly trickled into system in kitchen sink stuff, but nobody came to our grid. When the bank robbery was done we decided to stay there, as I figured they'd have us trapped in the pocket, and with our KSG setup I'd much rather fight on a deadspace ESS grid than brawl on a gate. So we waited, and waited. We had over 6 mins on our timers left when we finished the robbery, but still nobody came. System had spiked with 20+ pilots, but still, all just hanging back. When our timers hit 0 I warped us off to a safe so we could filament out.
I did see one of them yell "to Valhalla" in local right as we filamented, so I do think we missed a fight with them by about 30 seconds. Just as well though; we got the 200 mil loot, and they had more pilots and some rough looking ships for us to deal with.

That filament took us to Pure Blind. We went a few jumps and scouts saw a Caracal fleet forming up, about a dozen or so. I wanted to take that fight for sure, so when they called having 1 of them tackled on a gate, I took the fleet into system and had us align. I don't 100% recall why here, but something caused a pause, and in that time most of their fleet warped off. We landed on grid as just 1 was left, but it escaped too. We set up some bubbles and waited, and we did catch a Stiletto that came in.

After a few mins it seemed nothing was happening, so we moved on. Scouts got us an Ishtar to snack on a few systems later, and we enjoyed its MTU as a little dessert.

We caught a sigil on a gate a few mins later, and then proceeded on.

We stopped at an NPC station for a quick break and heat repair, then I called a trip back to Stacmon as it was 21j out and we'd been flying for over 3 hours. A few people left us here via filament as well. The rest of us just burned back, not seeing much along the way. We did go through Zarzakh which was new for a lot of people, so I'm glad we got to see that. We tried to engage a Sabre on a gate, and a few others, but nobody wanted to play with us in Lowsec. Glad we made it home on our 2nd fleet with no deaths.


Reflections and Learnings
I made a few mistakes with the Golem in the first encounter.
  • I had called people to warp to belts randomly to find it beforehand, so we all warped to Alex separately. With KSG fleet warps I was trying to warp us to targets at 20-30 km, but because we were scattered and everyone self-warped, we ended up with a lot of people landing on top of the Golem at 0-20km, and it popped a few specialty roles like our ewar early because of that. I should have had the fleet more grouped up or specified that everyone needed to warp to Alex at 20-30km at least.
  • Since we were fighting 1 big target, and it had MJDed away from us once before, I called for people to spread out at optimal ranges and fight it that way. My thinking here was that if it got an MJD off again, we'd have someone ~50-70km from it and could possibly re-establish tackle. This was a mistake because we lost the benefit of all the links, and some people ended up being closer to it than need be
  • Personally, as a pilot and not FC, I just got to close to the Golem. Our interceptors and interdictors were all dead, and we needed scrams to stop the MJD. I got close to do that, even though I didn't have a scram on my ship. I wanted to apply some neut pressure I guess, but that was dumb as I just got grappled and blapped so fast.
Other than that, the 2nd outing was good. I think not fighting the ESS response fleet was the right call. We would have gotten some kills, but they outshipped us, and frankly I was tired of waiting. Not going to just sit at the ESS for 20 mins waiting on them. Also I wanted to extract their 200mil in bonds.

I do wish we got the fight with the Caracals afterwards, and I forget why we moved slow there, but ah well. I'll try to move quicker on these things. It would have been nice to have a fleet vs fleet fight and not just us fighting 1 stationary target each time. We didn't really do any kiting.

And overall, KSG does seem fun to fly, just with a bit more logistics to figure out during set-up. I did some more research on command bursts beforehand to have a better feel there, but overall it's a lot of ships to coordinate and it's hard to balance and give people a clear answer when they ask what to fly. I'll likely do some more KSG fleets, even though I do love a good brawl.

Overall

We had ~452 mil destroyed, with losses of ~1.5 bil. Not a great isk delta. We did manage to extract 230 mil in bonds that the isk will be split amongst people who x-ed up in the next few days.
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Shaemus O'Conor
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Re: [AAR] Tuesday Nullsec Roam #6 - Tomlin and Shaemus make a nemesis

Post by Shaemus O'Conor »

My nemesis! :lol:

Another opportunity to recognize mistakes and learn from them.

Tomlin mentioned about all of the points that could have gone better during the Golem fight, just wanted to iterate on my own loss, perhaps as a teaching aid for other Ewar pilots:

Able to chose my own warp-in distance is always necessary as Ewar (exempt yourself from fleet warps before a fight) plus delaying my grid appearance by a few seconds helps often enough with hiding my presence on an already overloaded enemy overview. My optimal range was at around 70ish km so I picked one of the scouts that I heard call out tackle and warp to him at 50 which together with the scout being an expected 1 to 20km off the target should have put me nicely at 50 to 70km off the target, a good place to be aligning away from it and start throwing down jams.

Due to us warping in from all different kinds of angles though (which FC mentions in his conclusions above) it turned out that I actually ended up inside of 20km off the Golem, max danger zone of a squishy Ewar ship. :?

So what do?
1) Warp off immediately and reposition, potentially delaying jams on target by 30 seconds or more, allowing him to pick off more of our tackle, who's bubbles and scrams were important to hold him down? Seeing that he already took down one tackle during the first engagement and the second one was going down I decided that getting jams out sooner rather than later was important. So this leads to:
2) Align out and burn away with MWD on towards a safer range (keeping in mind that there also was a Maulus on grid with damps to keep his targeting range down)? Knowing that the Golem pilot was quick to target ECM ships to get them off the field from prior experience and knowing that a Golem's torps apply dangerously well onto frigates I decided to not bloom my signature to make it even easier for him, so that leads to:
3) Align out and sneak outside of point range while taking the conclusion from point 1 (getting jams on quickly) in mind. So align to a nearby planet I did without MWD on, got a first jam off, creeped to 23km off and started to feel safer, getting close to being outside point range, missed the yellowbox while trying to find where the Maulus was sitting at (to use as a possible warp-in when I have to bounce), then blam, pointed, painted, spam warp regardless, survive a first volley in hull, getting to 24km off, perhaps 25km, continue to spam warp, hoping to drop off point range anytime now... Turns out he likes to use abyssal points, probably with a disgusting range (going by his recent lossmails)... Second round of torps arrive... :lol:

So turns out option 1 would have been best after all, but hindsight is always easy :P

Just glad that the fleet managed to get some more juicy things during round two (even if I dropped earlier). Thanks for fleet FC, learning was to be had ;)
All praise the glorious Griffin!

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Re: [AAR] Tuesday Nullsec Roam #6 - Tomlin and Shaemus make a nemesis

Post by Archemide »

Shaemus O'Conor wrote: 2024.06.19 07:21
So what do?
1) Warp off immediately and reposition, potentially delaying jams on target by 30 seconds or more, allowing him to pick off more of our tackle, who's bubbles and scrams were important to hold him down? Seeing that he already took down one tackle during the first engagement and the second one was going down I decided that getting jams out sooner rather than later was important. So this leads to:
2) Align out and burn away with MWD on towards a safer range (keeping in mind that there also was a Maulus on grid with damps to keep his targeting range down)? Knowing that the Golem pilot was quick to target ECM ships to get them off the field from prior experience and knowing that a Golem's torps apply dangerously well onto frigates I decided to not bloom my signature to make it even easier for him, so that leads to:
3) Align out and sneak outside of point range while taking the conclusion from point 1 (getting jams on quickly) in mind. So align to a nearby planet I did without MWD on, got a first jam off, creeped to 23km off and started to feel safer, getting close to being outside point range, missed the yellowbox while trying to find where the Maulus was sitting at (to use as a possible warp-in when I have to bounce), then blam, pointed, painted, spam warp regardless, survive a first volley in hull, getting to 24km off, perhaps 25km, continue to spam warp, hoping to drop off point range anytime now... Turns out he likes to use abyssal points, probably with a disgusting range (going by his recent lossmails)... Second round of torps arrive... :lol:
Personally, I'd recommend a mix of 1 and 3.

Align out, lock and prefire jams, make a bookmark (so you can warp in to something you know rather than a random scout). As soon as your jams go off, you've already
a) Missed your jams, so can't do anything for 10s or something anyways
b) broken his lock on anything else.

So, as soon as your jams go off (fail or succeed), warp off and warp back, then try to keep him jammed.

Just my 2 isk though
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