[AAR] Outgunned in Drakes - 13th Jan

[Mike Kingswell]

We were winding down a harvester in Bacon when a Helios(?) with combat probes joined us.
After scattering and reforming in INNU we called on Drakes with two main objectives:
a) securing our MTU's and loot
b) maybe get a fight
Not knowing what we might face drakes seemed like a good option since they are able to scoop the MTU's and offer a bit of versitility in their engagement range.

Formup:
We spread the Shield and Skirmish charges, Points, Scrams, webs and target painters. Formup was fast-ish but it felt more improvised than anything to me.
I forgot about Neuts and I didnt call for DAMPS.

While collecting the 4th(or so?) MTU their fleet came in (fast enough to have already been on the way:
4 Guardians
4 Absolutions
1 Machariel
1 Devoter
1 Harbringer NI
1 Kitsune

We got onto .Bacon before they managed to bubble it up and jumped into INNU with them on our heels.
This gave Logi enough time to establish chain and burn out a bit.
For the fight I tried calling the first Guardian through the hole as target, and switched to another Guardian and an Absolution on count of 3.
We couldn't break the guardians though.

At the same time our Logi was quickly rendered useless by enemy EWAR since they also fielded a full flight of EWAR drones each which where already enough to take out a ospreys - followed up with the kitsune.

Not breaking them and having all 3 Logi EWAR'd out I called for everyone to burn out of the bubble (which went down soon after) and to scatter.

We lost 6 Drakes:
https://zkillboard.com/related/31000382/202101132100/

+ positive stuff:

• Formup was iffy but fast
• went out in new doctrine ready for a fight
• tried switching targets, locking multiple targets
• people did broadcast for reps <3

- potential improvments and thoughts:

• Didn't call for everything in formup -> A "checklist" might help on that (priority for mid slots and stuff like that)?
• calling shots form a logi ship is suboptimal (even if i have enough target locks for doing it)
• Damps might have made the kitsunes life harder? Don't knwo about at this range though
• Ewar was a problem for Logi, I personally like Yto's suggestion for a possible Osyprey fit for this doctrine since the EWAR Drones alone were enough
  

(It was agreed that the loot we DID get back and our wrecks are used to pay the guys that lost drakes - I have payed them out form my wallet and X'ed the blue loot on myself for easy maths and instant payout.)

[Conci Furiram]

Looking at the losses:
1. Was ammo coordinated? I see a T2-gun Drake using Faction and the other T2-gun Drake using Rage
2. Was the EWAR mid coordinated? I see one of the Drakes having TWO EWAR mids by taking off the Guidance Computer
3. Was the utility high coordinated? I see a Drake with empty high slot

[Gergoran Moussou]

In addition to what Conci said about coordinating the fits a bit more, this matchup is one in which I would have pinged Heavy Armor (or Heavy Shield if that doctrine has been reinstated, while an armor composition is standard for J-Space, there are some comparable shield compositions like HAM Drake Navy Issue which work very well).

This is something that I was saying while I lived in WHC: while there was a common belief that HA was only for facing hostile capital ships, but this is incorrect. For example, I don't remember any time when we fought WHSOC in which we got any kills or left without many losses because we consistently brought LA against what was usually a DNI/Basilisk composition. I understand that WHC is supposed to be accessible to newer players who might not have a lot of ISK or SP yet, so T2 and Triglavian ships are a bit out of reach, but the fleet composition should have a place for people like that (an obsolete version of HA had the same Augoror Navy Issue that was also in a former LA as a support ship for people who weren't able to undock a Sacrilege or Guardian yet, for example) and FCs need to be comfortable putting HA/HS on the line in order to take fights like this. And the only way to make sure that people are comfortable with it is to get some practice with fielding HA/HS when the situation calls for it. If it doesn't go well, apply for SRP and figure out what lessons need to be learned before the next time undocking the doctrine.

[Mike Kingswell]

As I said above:
Formup felt a bit iffy, this being the second(?) time i formed up drakes. I am still not sure what combination of mid slots is preferable. It already felt like calling a lot of things (charges, point, scram, web, paint,...)
The points about ammo, lacking guidance computers, empty highs strengthen this and show that we are quite new to this doctrine. Which is why I would love some sort of "Formup checklist" or at least recommendations on spread of mid slots etc. for the doctrine.

As for the call for heavy armor:
I think going out in heavy armor to collect MTU's and maybe get a fight against an (at that point) unknown enemy composition would have been overkill to be honest. Our drakes getting caught and making a stand on .Bacon left no time for reshipping. So while HA might have been a great composition to engage theirs there was no option to reship into it.