[WHC] A Rorqual's worth of Titus salt

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Titus Tallang

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Director of Education
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Post 2017.05.19 22:26

[WHC] A Rorqual's worth of Titus salt

Hello AAR forum. I am a tad salty right now, so let me tell you a story.

Our story begins with this, and ends at half structure with this. I'm sure you can fill in the blanks yourself. I hate nullsec so much. The end. Go to sleep, kids.
Scientia potentia est.
If a statement I made seems offensive to you, please be assured that this was not my intent.
If I am mistaken about something, please tell me about it. We improve through sharing knowledge.
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Titus Tallang

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Post 2017.05.19 22:26

Re: [WHC] A Rorqual's worth of Titus salt

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Alright, I was told that "that's not an AAR". Also, "more salt please, Titus". In fact, I was told so by my own conscience, mostly (on both counts). Well then.

So, our story begins, as mentioned:
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which piques my interest, because a Rorqual is one of the few elusive beasts that I haven't ticked off my FC resume yet. Armor stuff forms up, because you can never underestimate how terrible nullbears are at this game. 3 Guardians, 2 Bhaalgorns, 7 DD, token Purifier. After some back and forth forming up (seriously guys, get your shit together) we finally loiter over to the nullsec connection.

Bagutos decloaks his Stratios, we jump in, he tackles the Rorqual, we warp to him and start shooting with Mjolnir Rage. Tylenos brought quite the lovely gadget - a Cyno Inhibitor. He deploys it, but the deployment timer is 2 minutes, because oh no anything else would endanger our precious nullbears and CCP can't have that can they now. Also, the Rorqual is in Indy Core, so still tanking us for now. Bhaalgorns tell me he has no PANIC, no Energizer and a single shield booster+invuln for tank. Tasty shitfit Rorquals. Bhaalgorns are also hurting his cap, which rapidly depletes under the heavy neut pressure. A mere minute later, the call of "it's dry" is sounded.

I call for heat as its shield depletes rapidly, and the Rorqual enters armor. 10 seconds remaining on the Cyno Inhibitor, the Rorqual finally lights a cyno. Its armor still drops. The cyno inhibitor finally goes online, but the Cyno stays active because oh no anything else would endanger our precious nullbears and CCP really had to make sure the deployable was completely and utterly useless for catching dumb carebears doing very dumb things. However, apparently his support fleet either doesn't exist or is too dysfunctional to press "jump to", so he keeps dropping through armor and entering structure. I call to align out and to HEAT YOUR DRONES because I swear this kill won't be taken from me this time.

At half structure I hear the dreaded familiar woosh of a jump tunnel opening. My eyes flick to the overview and I curse nullsec from the depths of my heart as I see Apostle Nidhoggur Minokawa. A bunch more stuff also appears but I'm not even paying attention anymore because I spend a second or two agonizing before making the second hardest obvious call I've ever had to make. We extract with no losses.

Then the nullbears try to roll the connection with a single battleship (lol) so I go back with shield fleet (our wspace side was a pulsar) to smash that and get something. They proceed to run away from the hole, which has gone crit, thus eternally confirming my utter hatred for risk-averse nullsec carebears.
Scientia potentia est.
If a statement I made seems offensive to you, please be assured that this was not my intent.
If I am mistaken about something, please tell me about it. We improve through sharing knowledge.
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Marius Labo

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Retired Director
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Post 2017.05.20 08:06

Re: [WHC] A Rorqual's worth of Titus salt

Great FC'ing... blame game mechanics, blame CCP, blame "nullsec", blame everyone but yourself or the fact you didn't get a complete appreciation for the tactical situation, lol. Shit happens sometimes, sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you

As a former military tactician I have seen you call out in other threads about that FCs needing to adopt more real-world military tactical thinking. I can tell that you don't have that professional training or experience. I do, in case you didn't know.

Now, does all of that apply to, or need to be a requirement in internetpixelspaceships? No, but some basic stuff is definitely a plus.

FCs make the best tactical decisions based on "the ground", the weapons (doctrines, fleet composition, combat admin states), and "the men". Tactics is simply the application of men and weapons to the ground.

FCs should make the best combat appreciations they can, so that they can better understand how to apply tactics. It's that simple.

If you don't understand a proper combat appreciation you're going to miss things and that will adversely affect your tactical decisions. It's clear by your own words, that you lacked some integral facts in your combat appreciation. Quit blaming CCP, game mechanics, and the other side for your missed opportunities. In short, get over yourself ;). Cut the blame-game out of your AARs, and just stick to what happened and what you learned.

What I learned is that you're one sour individual if a fight doesn't go your way.

Seriously, though, I would think as the Uni Dir of Education, an AAR like this isn't really befitting of your station or what you represent. Git gud ;)
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Sayod Physulem

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Post 2017.05.20 09:21

Re: [WHC] A Rorqual's worth of Titus salt

you didn't get a complete appreciation for the tactical situation


What bit about the "tactical situation" did we miss exactly?

When we went in we didn't linger around but jumped on a count while bagutos tackled it. We had our watchlist setup correctly, we quickly started neuting it, we overheated guns and we dropped a cyno inhibitor right away. Logistics locked up the cyno inhibitor and bubbles where not dropped to enable us to moonwalk out. There is literally nothing else we could have done. And when the cyno lit, aligning was the best thing one could do. When the apostle landed staying would have been dumb as we wouldn't have broken the rorqual under FAX reps.

A bit more dps and the rorqual would have been dead. But you can't decide how many people you have.

We tried to kill it, we extracted smoothly, lingered on the hole, had an aeon warp in at 100 and deploy fighters, we tried to kill the fighters but logi couldn't keep up a prophecy so we left before we lost anything.
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Neonen Enderas (Biomassed 2017.06.23)

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Post 2017.05.20 11:21

Re: [WHC] A Rorqual's worth of Titus salt

*crunch crunch*
The popcorn is good, even though I prefer sweet popcorn over salty. But hey, beggars can't be choosers.

Marius Labo wrote:Great FC'ing... blame game mechanics, blame CCP, blame "nullsec", blame everyone but yourself or the fact you didn't get a complete appreciation for the tactical situation, lol. Shit happens sometimes, sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you
Yeah and somtimes you don't know what sarcasm is. While I too prefer a /s from time to time, this one is rather.. obvious. Painfully even.

As a former military tactician I have seen you call out in other threads about that FCs needing to adopt more real-world military tactical thinking. I can tell that you don't have that professional training or experience. I do, in case you didn't know.
What part are you speaking of? If you link the thread already, it would be really helpful if you could also quote the part you have a problem with. I like reading lots of stuff, but srsly? Is it too hard to use [.quote][./quote]? The last sentence reminded me of this one Image

Now, does all of that apply to, or need to be a requirement in internetpixelspaceships? No, but some basic stuff is definitely a plus.

FCs make the best tactical decisions based on "the ground", the weapons (doctrines, fleet composition, combat admin states), and "the men". Tactics is simply the application of men and weapons to the ground.
Image

FCs should make the best combat appreciations they can, so that they can better understand how to apply tactics. It's that simple.

If you don't understand a proper combat appreciation you're going to miss things and that will adversely affect your tactical decisions. It's clear by your own words, that you lacked some integral facts in your combat appreciation. Quit blaming CCP, game mechanics, and the other side for your missed opportunities. In short, get over yourself ;). Cut the blame-game out of your AARs, and just stick to what happened and what you learned.
Yeah but.. why does this "combat appreciation" come from someone who wasn't even on grid? Also, rtfw(read the f***ing words). If you can't see sarcasm that's so obvious.. I can't help it. :)

What I learned is that you're one sour individual if a fight doesn't go your way.
Ohoo, making it personal is always good. :D Well, he might be a sarcastic poster from time to time, but you are definitivly a sour poster. See here. "But the directors!".

Seriously, though, I would think as the Uni Dir of Education, an AAR like this isn't really befitting of your station or what you represent. Git gud ;)
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Oh idk, while his post is not a good AAR, your's isn't helping either. If you wanted to correct him, you could point out what they could have done instead. :lol:
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Did someone say "Stealthbomber"? Explosions? And ECM? I'm in! Let's blow shit up! ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

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Mattikus Pathfinder

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Post 2017.05.20 11:25

Re: [WHC] A Rorqual's worth of Titus salt

Marius Labo wrote:...

What on earth did I just read? Personal attacks aren't really appropriate.

A nice little hunt on a friday evening. Form up was (relatively) quick. Comms were calm, strategy was well explained before we went in. Everyone did what they were meant to, and nothing that happened on the field was a surprise. We extracted mostly cleanly when things went the wrong way, apart from a guardian getting accidentally polarised badly. A real shame we didn't quite manage the kill.
Teacher | WHC Admin Officer

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Calrik Aakiwa

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Post 2017.05.20 12:03

Re: [WHC] A Rorqual's worth of Titus salt

@titus ok so the only bit of this aar that has triggered me in anyway is when you say about your hatred for "risk averse null bears" To me a risk averse null bear is someone who doesn't lose their pve ship. I am struggling to see how this is a bad thing. Say for example NSC decided to mine everyday afk in a Rorq (the opposite to being risk averse) and they constantly died making NSC looking like a great place to hunt rorqs, would you hate the NSC or love them?

Anyways just git gudder, keep hunting you will get one down soon enough ;)
He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight. He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces. He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks. He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared. He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by the sovereign.
-Sun Tzu
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Yuri Titov

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Post 2017.05.20 15:36

Re: [WHC] A Rorqual's worth of Titus salt

Marius Labo wrote:summin summin tactishon


Yea Titus, learn how to tactishon!
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Rodger Kint

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Post 2017.05.21 03:27

Re: [WHC] A Rorqual's worth of Titus salt

Null sec operating as intended. Eve gives us big expensive whales to play with and that forces us into big groups with big ships to protect them. Call them null bears all you want but it's a pretty dumb roq owning bear that doesn't have the ability to call a cap group down on your heads when you pin them.

You brought a knife to a gun fight, what did you really have any right to expect? Bob is laughing at your tears but not at your actions.

As far as i can see you did everything right except undock fleet big enough to kill a prepared whale and it's back up. Keep at it, there are idiots out there, you just need to be luckier next time.
KEEP CALM & DEFFO BLAP YO
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Paledan Safemal

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Post 2017.05.21 09:23

Re: [WHC] A Rorqual's worth of Titus salt

I'll +1 the comment that with your numbers the odds were you'd miss that Rorqual. With hindsight, you might have been better off swapping one of your Bhaalgorns for dps, though it's something of a moot point as one more dps ship likely wouldn't have got you through half a Rorqual's worth of structure hitpoints anyway. E-Uni fleets in my day were notoriously short on dps and long on people wanting to try out special snowflakes' roles, which is perfectly normal for a teaching corp.

From his perspective, maybe that Rorqual alt was skilling up for PANIC but he wanted to get some ISK in to start paying for his investment (that Rorqual was likely worth more than your whole fleet), and his alliance wasn't the fastest-responding entity in New Eden. Fortunately for you, if I may add... :wink: Still, he lit his cyno while he still could, and the cavalry came in time to save him.

TLDR: as Rodger Kint wrote, you had no right to expect a guaranteed Rorqual kill with the fleet you had in hand. With those numbers and comp, all you can hope for is to keep trying until you get lucky.





As an additional comment, I can understand the frustration when you thought you almost had him. Still, I'm of two minds about calling them risk-adverse shitfit nullbears. On one hand, an institution that undocks with a dozen ships, barely half of which some kitchen-sink dps fits, hoping to kill a Rorqual, has no business calling anyone shitfit risk-adverse idiots, especially with a killboard like the Uni's. But on the other hand, teaching students to shittalk about others' gameplay is a skill that'll come in handy in many of the corps they'll graduate to (it's also taught in real-world military institutions, as I'm sure you didn't know) so you may have been right on that score, I don't know... 8)

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