The Tale of the 50MN MWD Frigate

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K950

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Post 2015.11.11 23:14

The Tale of the 50MN MWD Frigate

G'day,

I've heard of oversized Microwarpdrives equipped on frigates ...

...but with no followup explanations on the rationale or purpose. Evidently the rushing pursuit of ever faster speed drives half the human race anyways, so I thought I would explore this avenue.

Specifically, the only practical oversized Microwarpdrive that can fit on a frigate class vessel is the 50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive. Let's start with a basic Tech I frigate available to just about everybody. My present skills give me the results here:

magnate50mnmwd.jpg
A fit for a Magnate frigate with a 50MN Microwarpdrive.


So it can be done. But clearly, this is more of a task for an interceptor. Here are two fits that I have cooked up for a Crusader:

  Code:
[Crusader, Microwarpdrive Powerdrive]                               [Crusader, Microwarpdrive Powerdrive]

Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core                                     Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II                                       Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Reactor Control Unit II                                             Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Overdrive Injector System II                                        Overdrive Injector System II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive                                    50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Cap Recharger II                                                    Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200

Prototype Cloaking Device I                                         Prototype Cloaking Device I
[Empty High slot]                                                   [Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]                                                   [Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]                                                   [Empty High slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router II                                   Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Ancillary Current Router II                                   Small Ancillary Current Router II


I should probably say two things next. The first is to apologize for the format above, but I wanted to conserve space, and the fits are easily replicated manually. The secondly is that a Claw can actually go faster than this ship can. I will explain.

On paper, this ship does 10.7km/sec. Blistering speed. The Claw with max skills likewise, attains 11.2km/sec. However this last keel suffers from a shortage of capacitor compared to the Crusader, so I'm guessing that it won't be able to run as long.

Before I made these fits I looked on the internet for similar builds. Here is the only one I found. This particular fit has three problems. First, it is shockingly expensive. Secondly, it doesn't even move as fast as the ones I've shown above. Third, should you get caught, you're going to be on the laughing end of many people who will be doubting your sanity by reason of the stratospheric price tag.

Let's get back to the Crusader. The main cost boils down to the costly Tech II rigs, and the Faction power modules in the lows just to be able to fit the thing. The fit with the Cap Recharger II is cheaper, but doesn't last as long. The fit with the Cap Booster II costs more, but lasts longer. But all this is still theoretical mind games, so this requires in-game testing to find out for real how it actually behaves.

On paper, the Crusader (either fit above) attains the following speed figures:

No Microwarpdrive active: 640m/sec
50MN Microwarpdrive active: 10.7km/sec (10654m/sec)
Overheated MWD active: 15.7km/sec (15661m/sec)

Someone might point out that Implants can increase your speed. So for those with bottomless pockets, who have no problem buying all High-Grade Snake Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Epsilon and Omega implants, with a Strong Mindflood Booster (to give a +20% boost to Capacitor), let's see what you can get:

No Microwarpdrive active: 798m/sec
50MN Microwarpdrive active: 13.3km/sec (13290m/sec)
Overheated MWD active: 19.5km/sec (19535m/sec)

Just for a quick reminder, a Claw will hit 20.4km/sec with an overheated 50MN Microwarpdrive, at least for a very short time. That, has to be awesome.

Speaking of speed, you can fit all High-Grade Ascendancy implants in a Leopard and blitz around at an eye-watering 32.4AU/sec. To be honest, I went on the test server and took a Leopard for a spin in Thera. Thera, for those who know, and for those who've never been there, is a really big system. Each system is approximately 250+ AU apart, and can reach over 300 AU from various locations. The problem then becomes the fact that shuttles don't have very much capacitor: indeed, my current pilot can only hop 190.5AU before the capacitor is exhausted. If you had all those implants as listed earlier, a Inherent Implants 'Squire' Capacitor Management EM-806 plus a Strong Mindflood Booster to boost your capacitor, you could reach 368.7AU maximum. The cost will be...lots.

Still, in a Leopard, it's nice to see it countdown ... 180...160...140...120...100...80...60...40 knowing that you are moving.

Oh right. Back to the Crusader. I was able to procure someone who was able to take this fit out for a joyride. To run this fit, you'll need the following skills:
Hull Upgrades II; Interceptors I; Capacitor Management V; Capacitor Systems Operation V; CPU Management IV; Power Grid Management V; Navigation V; Acceleration Control V; High Speed Maneuvering V; and Amarr Frigate V.

I was curious about a couple of things:

1) Does it actually hit top speed?
2) How long does it last?
3) Fit #1 vs Fit #2: who does better?
4) If someone probes you down and warps to you while you're burning away without the MWD on, and you punch it as soon as you see them load grid, how far will you be away by the time they start locking you?
5) Is it practical, by any means?

Let's get right to the answers. I had someone else pilot the interceptor, can't say who unless they decide it's okay here. The reason is I can't even fly an interceptor yet. Even if I could, I'd get it blown up anyways because I'm too green to not blow up those things by reason of lack of skill and ignorance.

1) Does it actually hit top speed?
It does actually hit top speed. On the Cap Recharger fit (fit #1), you'll hit top speed right about the same time you are empty of capacitor and can't go any more. Apparently, you'll get about 3 cycles of the MWD before you're empty. On Fit #2 with the Cap Booster II, you'll hit top speed after about 60 seconds, and for most cases, you'll probably drop grid after roughly 50 seconds, depending on the size of the grid (ours was about 400km before he dropped grid).

crusaderneartopspeed.jpg
Nearing top speed of a Crusader with a 50MN MWD.


2)How long does it last?
For the first fit with the Capacitor Recharger, you'll be hauling along for just about 30 seconds. In that time, starting from a moving start at full speed with the MWD off, you'll travel approximately 220km. If you overheat, you'll travel about 260km before you're exhausted. Almost enough to drop grid, depending on grid size.

On the second fit, the addition of the Cap Booster charges mean you can last long. Quite a bit longer, actually. The Small Capacitor Booster II has a capacity of 15m3 for charges. A Navy Cap Booster 150 has a volume of 4.5m3, and a Navy Cap Booster 200 has a volume of 6m3. This means you can fit 3 Navy Cap Booster 150s or 2 Navy Cap Booster 200s. Observe the results:

> With Navy Cap Booster 150s...5 minutes 4 seconds, for an approximate distance of 2810km before the capacitor is exhausted. (Runs out of cap charges in about 4:34sec.)
> With Navy Cap Booster 200s...4 minutes 23 seconds, for an approximate distance of 2665km before the capacitor is exhausted. (Cap charges are depleted in approximately 3:35sec.)

We measured these distances by having the interceptor go out ~10km from me, align back to me, hit full speed without the Microwarpdrive active, then hit the Microwarpdrive as soon as he passes me. He'd then travel until he was out of capacitor and can't run any more cycles of the MWD. A bookmark dropped where that spot was, warp back to me, and look at the distance on the map. It turns out that the reload cycle of the Capacitor Booster is just barely enough to refill the capacitor before the MWD cycles again.

That's without overheating. Since you'll last about a minute an a half with the Microwarpdrive overheated, you could overheat as you near the end of your capacitor charge quantity.

Heh. You might be able to hit 3000km that way. You're limited mainly by your cargohold: a Crusader has a 72m3 cargo hold, which means 12 Navy Cap Booster 200s OR 16 Navy Cap Booster 150s. My companion had some nanite paste so he was only able to load 15 into the cargohold, so you should be able to slightly farther with one extra charge and probably pulsed overheating.

3) Fit #1 vs Fit #2: who does better?
The second fit with the Small Capacitor Booster II. Of course if you have zero room or can't procure the charges, then the first fit becomes the only option.
4) If someone probes you down...
About 25km. You're out of scram range and gaining. Any points will be useless. A prepared pilot can simply set his directional scanner to about 1.25-1.5AU and watch for combat probes. By the time they get a warpin, you'll be so far off their warpin will be useless.
5) Is it practical, by any means?
Not...really. Here's why.

A Microwarpdrive when it is active, adds to your ship's mass. Specifically, the 50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive adds 5,000,000kg, while a regular 5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive adds only 500,000kg. This oversized MWD makes the ship accelerate very slowly. It only gets close to top speed near the end of the 3rd cycle of the propulsion module.

It's also not capacitor stable. You can easily fit an interceptor to kick around at 5km/sec and be capacitor stable. And if someone probed you down, you might see them coming with the combat probes and hit the propulsion module. If they come from afar, like 25AU, by the time they load grid, you'll be over 100km away. Or you could have cloaked. Or you could have warped out. And you'll still keep a sub 2-second align time.

It gets worse. Because of the extreme powergrid requirements, you can't fit any guns, shield extenders, boosters, armor modules, ... anything. An extremely specialized fit which does one thing very well for a very short period of time.

If only a Medium Remote Capacitor Transmitter II could be kept on this thing as it flew...maybe a chain-gang of Augorors/Ospreys?

There. I hope Seamus Donohue pitches in here. I'm pretty sure he's got something to add on.
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Azmodeus Valar

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Post 2015.11.11 23:43

Re: The Tale of the 50MN MWD Frigate

For attempts and breaking speed records, implants, boosters, etc.. have been used, in addition to lines of logi to supply cap.
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K950

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Post 2015.11.13 15:08

Re: The Tale of the 50MN MWD Frigate

Guess I was the only one that was curious about the concept...

Well.

With my explorative/curious mind, I'm sure I'll find a few other interesting, more obscure concepts I can test out in the future.
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Seamus Donohue

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Post 2015.11.16 06:23

Re: The Tale of the 50MN MWD Frigate

I'd have to poke Python Fitting Assistant again, but similar speeds can be reached by placing a cruiser Microwarpdrive on certain Tech 3 Tactical Destroyers in Propulsion Mode.
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Dama Arishe

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Post 2015.11.16 13:38

Re: The Tale of the 50MN MWD Frigate

Heated 50MN Confessor goes around 13k.
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Ceilidh Brinalle

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Post 2015.12.16 02:14

Re: The Tale of the 50MN MWD Frigate

^^ I use one to make bookmarks. Its hella sexy.
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manasi

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Post 2015.12.16 12:13

Re: The Tale of the 50MN MWD Frigate

Approaching Ludicrous speed for sure! Especially with the new grid sizes Ill have to look into fitting one of these for makeing my safe spot 'safer'. Thanks for the research and time! I do fly a crusader ( and a claw as well) so perhaps referring back to this will come in handy!

~M
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K950

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Post 2015.12.31 00:42

Re: The Tale of the 50MN MWD Frigate

I imagine this is somewhat similar to the fit that is used for high speed Confessors?

With all Level V skills, cap stable (37.8%) at 9503m/s. Approximate cost: 86.8M ISK. Overheated MWD: 13927m/sec.

[Confessor, Confessor - Super Speeder]

Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
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Paledan Safemal

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Post 2015.12.31 15:00

Re: The Tale of the 50MN MWD Frigate

What's your goal for the ship?

If you want to set a speed record, then you need the following:
- C6 black hole
- Quafe
- Snakes
- Links
- possibly some Guardians to feed you cap along the way

If you just want a very fast ship to like burn bookmarks, then you're looking at maximum sustained speed without overheat.

If you want to actually use the ship, then you might need something like a point (though keeping someone pointed while going 15km/s looks sort of hard)
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Alto DeRaqwar

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Post 2016.01.07 00:42

Re: The Tale of the 50MN MWD Frigate

Paledan Safemal wrote:What's your goal for the ship?


Just as a personal note; since the grid enlargement I've been using these guys to burn new bookmarks around gates. It's still handy to have ones a couple of thousand klicks off so I can monitor and warp to the gate quickly.
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K950

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Post 2016.02.18 16:25

Re: The Tale of the 50MN MWD Frigate

Well, it appears that all along, I have missed out on an even cheaper, and more effective Tech 1 version of a Super Bookmark Burner:

The Punisher. Someone put up a fit in our wiki that shows all. You will need High Speed Maneuvering V (5x multiplier) and all capacitor skills to V. Obvious fitting skills to V, though you don't need Advanced Weapon Upgrades. You could use a very costly implant (120M) implant if you don't have HSM V, but...

  Code:
[Punisher, InstaUndockMaker]

50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Cap Recharger II

Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Reactor Control Unit II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I


I've come up with one of mine that doesn't require High Speed Maneuvering V, but you will still require all capacitor skills to V.

  Code:
[Punisher, Bookmark Burner]

Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Cap Recharger II

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Engine Thermal Shielding I


The first fit, which is recommended, may not be quite as fast as a Confessor (500m/sec slower with all V) but...

it's 1/10th the price!

EDIT: Found out about the Small Engine Thermal Shielding rig, which makes it cap stable. Updated. You can also use a Small Dynamic Fuel Valve I. Neat. With 1 PG and plenty of CPU left, you can still pack on an Improved Cloaking Device II. Now your bookmarks are going to be made in 0.0 whether they like or not!
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Tavion Aksmis

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Post 2016.02.27 11:14

Re: The Tale of the 50MN MWD Frigate

There was a Reddit post about trying to get the fastest ship posseble in EVE and record it. Apparently some guy managed to get 61km/s in a Svipul through oversized D-space MWD, ALL implants, links and the right wormhole effect, before svipul nerfs :lol:

Some EFT warrioring made me make a claw like this (20.5km/s overheat, 24.4km/s overheat+links, 48.8km/s overheat+links+c6 black hole) (+implants and quafe zero):

SPOILER WARNING!
[Claw, New Setup 1]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Corelum A-Type 50MN Microwarpdrive
Micro Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Ancillary Current Router II


Ye, I tryed Navy Auxilliry cores.. cant really do anything more with those.
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K950

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Post 2016.07.01 13:15

Re: The Tale of the 50MN MWD Frigate

It seems that now we have a good use for a Gold Magnate. They don't make ships faster than this one, apparently:

[Gold Magnate, Gold Magnate - Unthinkable speed]

Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Chelm's Modified Reactor Control Unit

Cap Recharger II
Corelum A-Type 50MN Microwarpdrive
Cap Recharger II
[Empty Med slot]

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Auxiliary Thrusters I
Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Ancillary Current Router II


With the following: C6 black hole, Fleet boost (Rapid Deployment II), All level V navigation skills, a full head of Snake implants + hyperlink, plus Quafe Zero, you'll hit the blizzard-inducing limit of 46363m/sec cold and 66779m/sec overheated. Out of the Black Hole effect, it'll be 23181m/sec before heat.

That's pretty quick.

I'm operating under the assumption that while the fit is capacitor stable without the capacitor rechargers, those are for overheating purposes to function as heat sinks.

Source thread.
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BobbyRush

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Post 2016.07.01 15:07

Re: The Tale of the 50MN MWD Frigate

I'd like to see someone burning tacs in a gold magnate
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