Imicus/Heron versus Astero

Forum rules
This forum can be viewed by the public.
<<

Sweet Pain

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2017.04.20 18:58

Imicus/Heron versus Astero

I spend most of my time in Syndicate and Placid and have really enjoyed wormhole diving for relic sites. I bought 3 Herons and 3 Imicus' for about 3M each and have lost a few of them (sleepers, bombers, etc.). But the loot I've hauled in has more than paid for any of my ship losses. I'm training for a T2 exploration frigate (Helios) but am still a little ways off. In the meantime, I bought an Astero for improved exploration. But the ship is 20x more than the T1 frigates and I'm wondering if it's worth the risk to explore with a ship like this when I can continue with the Imicus. I've read that many people use an Astero for explorer hunting but I'm just not to that point right now. I want to use the Astero but is there a better way to do without such a risk?
<<

Fergus Echerie

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2017.04.20 19:50

Re: Imicus/Heron versus Astero

I'm pretty much at exactly the same place (minus actually buying the Astero). I guess it's like everything in the game, if you can afford it and are willing to take the risk, go for it.

I know a few people in the Uni who fly the Astero though and it certainly gives you more options, there's not many rat wormhole site's you can take on in an Imicus/Helios.

I'm planning on getting to Helios to get covops practice and in the mean time start running drone/combat sites in a Vexor to learn how that works. Combination of the 2 I figure is good starting point for Astero.
<<

Sin Tsukaya

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2017.04.20 23:29

Re: Imicus/Heron versus Astero

I've recently started flying Astero, after putting it off for a long time. The TL;DR is that I only think it's worth it in two circumstances:
* If you're an experienced explorer who is working with medium skills, but knows exactly what to do with them.
* If you intend to use the ship aggressively, to either hunt other explorers (and your relatively small window of other engagable targets), or to force them off, leaving you with the sites.

(I am disregarding other uses for the Astero hull, such as hunting for VNI/Ishtar ratters, or tearing up FW space).

Let's be clear here, the Astero has three advantages over a T1 explorer - the covops cloak, some combat ability, and small scanning/hacking bonuses.

The T2 covops ships have the covops cloak and the hacking bonusses, but without the combat ability. They also run to a third the price, and something like three weeks' less training.

Thing is, if you're serious about exploration, three weeks' training is not a big investment, and those are useful skills to have anyway. It's also time you probably ought to spend practicing not-dying in cheaper ships anyway. (A covops cloak helps you see more without being seen; it doesn't help you not-die much, except against gatecamps).

Of course, if you're working primarily in null, and purely exploring, you ought to consider the exploceptor anyway (I like the Raptor, but most of the hulls work). You do, however, really need hacking skills to V to make hacking comfortable, and Astrometrics to V (supports to IV) to make a cheapfit comfortable to scan in. My fit runs to 30m, is functionally immune to everything except smartbombs, and changes system so fast and easily I can afford to reject out of hand any system with someone in local. I have a cloak purely for convenience when scanning or AFKing.

That's a high-skill option, though, because it's an unbonussed hull. A nullified T3 would have similar advantages, but you'd lose speed, and I'm sure I don't need to explain why a 300m ship is a dubious prospect for those purposes.

Anyway, back to the Astero. I use one for two reasons: 1) I wind up needing to stay in the same hull for days at a time, so I want a versatile one. 2) I actively enjoy mixing up my exploring with some explorer hunting.

As it happens, I'm currently significantly in profit on my decision to use an Astero. I'm *aware* of 400m isk in exploration sites that other people didn't or couldn't contest because I was in an Astero and they were in something else, and I've made about 250m from killing other explorers. (Most of that was down to one fantastically lucky loot haul, though).

On the other hand, I have maybe a year of (intermittent) wormhole life under my belt, have ended up in actual fights against resisting targets a few times, have escaped enemies on grid a couple of times, and maybe four situations I am *sure* were traps, and another dozen I bailed on because they felt like they might be. With less experience or lower skills, I could be looking at half a dozen lossmails by now.

Basically, I feel like the time it takes to train into T2 exploration ships is commensurate with the time it takes to be good enough at using them to make the extra investment worthwhile. I do *not* feel like the time it takes to train basic skills for an Astero is going to give you the experience to make it a sound investment if exploration is your main income stream (obviously, if you are independently wealthy, and are happy to spend isk to make the learning experience more pleasant, it's a decent investment).

Tangentially, I think that the Sisters probe launcher and the integrated analyzers are never worth the isk investment on any exploration frigate ever, unless - again - isk is no longer a concern, and you are happy to spend that much for quality of life. I think the Sisters *probes* are amazing, and you probably ought to be spending your second "good" (10m+) haul of exploration loot buying some.

The Astero is not useful for any PvE combat content outside of hisec. Although it will work for clearing the rats out of some wormhole gas sites, if you are minded to then huff them. (There are other things you *could* run with it, but the DPS is painfully low, so it's almost never efficient. Gas sites are an exception because you're there anyway, and it's just 4-5 frigates to kill, with the value being in the site they leave behind.)
<<

Sin Tsukaya

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2017.04.21 00:01

Re: Imicus/Heron versus Astero

Stepping back slightly, my general philosophy for "can I afford to...?" - as always in EVE, "it depends" - specifically, on the state of your wallet, your other income sources, and so forth:

Are you space rich? Can you afford to spend this isk, and consider it gone, for the sake of the experience? Then if you want to do the thing, you should do the thing. Perhaps you'll die in fire, but since it doesn't matter, it was worth it to buy that experience.

Are you space poor? If you lost everything you undocked, would that hurt your ability to earn isk? If you can afford to completely replace it and carry on, then you're okay. If you have an Incursion battleship somewhere safe, and can go back to running them, then you're okay. If you don't, and you're undocking in over half your net worth... you're probably making a mistake.

Otherwise, assuming it's an investment you will feel, or one you can afford but only want to make if it's worthwhile... consider if it's going to be worthwhile. How will this investment make you more isk, or otherwise increase your success at your objectives? Quantify that. Estimate mean time to loss, or increased risk.


In this specific case, if you have billions, do it. If your net worth is under 200m, don't do it. Otherwise, consider if it would be profitable:

The Astero could make you more isk by letting you push other explorers off sites, or kill them. It could let you survive more gatecamps and have a bigger chance of getting back home with loot. Think about what has killed you, consider whether an Astero would have survived that, sum up the extra *loot* that would have let you bring home (bringing a more expensive ship back doesn't count as profit, only as prevented loss). Now imagine that every loss that would have occurred anyway cost you an extra 60m isk. Would you be in profit if you'd used Asteros instead?
<<

Sweet Pain

Portrait

Member
Member

Post 2017.04.21 14:54

Re: Imicus/Heron versus Astero

Thank you for your response. You've given me much to think about.

I guess the mentality I have is that the T1 frigates were so cheap and the hauls were so profitable that my profit margins were huge even though lost 4 of them. I could hack aggressively because then risk/reward ratio was so good.

With the Astero, my costs are higher but the rewards are potentially greater if I can bully or kill other explorers and have higher bonuses. My hesitation is that I have very little pvp experience (but I'm working on it by doing Kestrel roams near FW plexes).

I will have the skills for interceptors in 2 days but I still have another week before I can fly a Helios. So an exploceptor is an option.

I'm not space rich but I'm not space poor either. I have about 1.2B so losing the Astero would be more of a blow to my ego than my wallet.

I guess I could always test out wormholes with my Imicus and push as far as I can. If I see a chance to kill or force someone out, I could go get the Astero. Or just take it out and see what happens.

Return to Exploration and Wormholes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Powered by Dediserve