Talk to me about my first MWD kiter.

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Luca Goh

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Post 2017.09.04 00:55

Talk to me about my first MWD kiter.

I bought a stack of Slicers a few weeks ago and quickly discovered the degree to which I could not pilot them: my manual piloting leaves a lot to be desired, as does my ability to MWD out of scram range when landing in a plex. While I could learn with the Slicers of course, I was hoping to first practice with something more budget-friendly.

Kiting Tristans strike me as one option, but does anyone have any others? A Condor, perhaps (I would love to see potential fits, especially ones with TDs)? If anyone has any thoughts about T1 MWD kiting frigs and things to keep in mind as I work on my kiting skills I would love to hear them.
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Breeze One

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Post 2017.09.04 05:29

Re: Talk to me about my first MWD kiter.

I'll give this a go...

Basic principle when entering a plex in a MWD Kiter is to be clicking in space in a straight line in front of your ship - because you lose speed/time changing direction. As soon as you start moving, activate your overheated MWD

In practice for me, this means sliding into a plex with my MWD preheated, then zooming my camera in mid-warp so it's just behind my ship, then I literally spam-click in front of my ship while also spamming the hot-key my MWD is assigned to (W for me)

Idea is obviously to either get outside max scram range (10km) or close enough to it that your momentum carries you outside that range if they do land a scram. You need to do that inside 2-3 seconds assuming your opponent is smart and is at 0 on the beacon, is spamming target, and has his Scram overheated

There MUST be some math somewhere on what minimum speed and agility you need in order to be able to reliably 100% achieve this, but in my experience it's pretty damn hard to pull this off 100% of the time against a prepared and experienced opponent. Nano Garmurs with Blingy MWDs get pretty close to 100% success rate, and so can Interceptors (due I think to the tiny signature radius making the locking time a bit longer), but I find Slicers are a tiny bit more vulnerable and even good pilots can get caught occasionally - especially against double web ships (the 12km range on the webs makes it much harder to get out of range fast enough). Kiting Tristans are very easy to catch at 0 on a beacon

What you can try to do to improve your odds is using the defensive web. As you accelerate away, lock your opponent and apply your own web. This slows him down, gives you a higher relative velocity and gives you a higher chance of evading the scram. However I personally find this super hard to pull off given all the other stuff you're tracking at that time and for me it's more of a "Hail Mary" option than a reliable tool - but maybe I just need practice :roll:

That being said, this is a game of seconds and marginal differences - if your opponent has a T1 scram (with a shorter range) or is positioned slightly off the beacon, or has a slow connection, then your success rate increases massively

What helped me when I was learning this was sitting with a friend in a plex, and just repeatedly sliding into him over and over again for 10mins and having him try and land the scram. You're trying out the worst case scenario - a prepared opponent - but it's good practice

For ships, as I say I personally find the Tristan quite bad at attacking plexes against scram ships (it's great for defending a plex though obviously). I think it's too slow and not agile enough to reliably slip tackle when sliding into a plex. Others may disagree. I used a Condor when I was practicing Kiting, which was great - I got it to around 5km/s cold, and it probably had a 60-75% success rate at escaping tackle when attacking plexes - although my overall win/loss was obviously worse than that!

Having said that, it also has a paper tank, and is super predictable - everyone knows what the Condor does and is prepared for it. I'm a huge fan of Trixie's Kiting Punisher fit personally, even though it's not the fastest, just for the added surprise value it gives - people often assume a Punisher will brawl so they move away from the beacon which gives you a big window to get out of range before they realise. It's also a nice training step to the Slicer given it also uses Beam Lasers

That's just my two cents though - I'm not a huge fan of Kiting ships so maybe someone who flies them more conisistently could add/disagree with me here
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Luca Goh

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Post 2017.09.05 20:48

Re: Talk to me about my first MWD kiter.

Deep thanks Breeze for the awesome response. I and my stack of Tristans thank you for keeping them from needless losses for the sake of experimentation.

I've seen those kinds of kiting Punisher fits before and actually seem to have one from you saved somehow (though I'd need a +2% CPU implant to fly it as-is; making both Heat Sinks the compact variety loses minimal DPS and makes the fit work, however).

SPOILER WARNING!
[Punisher, Breeze One's Kiting Punisher]
Extruded Compact Heat Sink
Heat Sink II
Mark I Compact Capacitor Power Relay
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Faint Scoped Warp Disruptor

Small Focused Beam Laser II
Small Focused Beam Laser II
Small Focused Beam Laser II
Small Focused Beam Laser II

Small Energy Locus Coordinator II
Small Energy Locus Coordinator II
Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Imperial Navy Ultraviolet S x8


I had never compared it to the Hyperkitten before and was surprised to see it be both faster (3221 m/s vs 2950 m/s) and more agile (1.4551 intertia mod vs 2.0650) while still having 10-15 more DPS. Who'da thunk? Definitely going to play with the fit a bit and give it a whirl. It gives me way more DPS than a Condor especially with my poor missile skills so this could be a solid first ship to experiment with. And I love the surprise factor. Tank is minimal, but I suppose if I get caught I'm already screwed. Dropping a Heat Sink for a SAAR loses me about 15 DPS which that's no bueno.
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Raido Kudonen

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Post 2017.09.19 13:34

Re: Talk to me about my first MWD kiter.

Practicing MWD kiting will work better with the Punisher than the Tristan (or the Condor) because the latter are essentially brainless - the only task you care about is holding point/not getting slingshotted, which is actually a pretty low bar and will do nothing to help you learn to fly ships like the Slicer.

The main issue in manual kiting with turret ships is managing to hold range without ruining your own tracking - since you don't care about tracking with missile/drone DPS, flying the Condor or Tristan (or Garmur or MWD Hookbill) is largely identical to flying an interceptor where you only really care about holding point. With the Slicer (and the Punisher), your ship is so fast that you actually out-track your own guns if you orbit. As a result, you have to learn manual piloting tricks (such as orbiting a point in space that is roughly 20km from your target, such that the plane of your orbit is roughly perpendicular to the line from your orbit point to the target) so that you can keep your speed advantage but not ruin your tracking. This is a skill that you will literally never learn flying drone/missile ships, because flying drone/missile ships like that is dumb and bad.
"What is good in life, Raido?"
"To crush your enemies. To see them bubbled before you, and to hear the lamentations of their carebears."

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