[AAR] Lowsec Fisticuffs - The Bounty of Prism 17SEPT 2300

[Budda Sereda]

Whoever organized FFA should educate his participants to use dscan. He should only blame himself

[Glen Burney]

" damn. I feel like a heel now. I'm sorry for causing a problem."

Kontexi... You have no reason for feeling like a heel, and I cannot accept your apology because none is necessary. This guy was trying to run a Frigate Free-for all in Lowsec Faction Warfare without a plan for responding to hostile fleets? It's astonishing really! Many ways he could have set this up:

1) Have the event at a deep safe, or even a non-deep safe.
2) In the event of a hostile fleet, message someone in fleet and ask for a message to be conveyed to the FC. Local is full of cheap talk, you have to get a dialogue in a private channel.
3) Have the event somewhere that's NOT FW! There are a ton of quiet lowsec systems that would work better, like just off the pipe between Old Man Star and Amarr FW.

Please please please, know that you did nothing wrong.

Michael, thanks so much for bringing this to our attention though. We do want to foster understanding, and the UNI is an organization that cares about how it is seen, so I will be sharing this with some diplomacy and director folks. Your point of view is appreciated as well, and I too could see how we would be perceived as spoilers. It's all about perspective

Glen

[Michael Alderman]

Agree with most of the points made. In particular, yes, Kontexi did nothing actually wrong here, nor did the rest of the fleet. So don't feel bad. I'd classify the whole thing as a misunderstanding, which will now be resolved. Wasn't really about us doing anything wrong, and certainly not on purpose. It was about perception. And I laughed when it was suggested that we might have been heard if they'd stopped throwing ships at you non-stop. I can't argue with that.

And yes, one of my first thoughts was "what did he think would happen?" considering the nature of the event and where it was held. There's things that can be improved, no doubt. As for people "losing respect", well, there was some mild bad feelings based on the misunderstanding at the time. I can sort of understand that. Misunderstandings are misunderstandings, and the only good way to handle them is to clear things up. And for him, they have been. Since we know about it, now, we can avoid those misunderstandings in the future.

So I pretty much agree with everything except perhaps "get better friends". Would be pretty lame of me to dump a friend because of some small thing like this in a video game. And it's good that I heard about it, because we get to do a little outreach and show them what we're really made of. Handling it well turns a small negative into a positive.

This really explains well why I brought it up at all: "We do want to foster understanding, and the UNI is an organization that cares about how it is seen, so I will be sharing this with some diplomacy and director folks. Your point of view is appreciated as well, and I too could see how we would be perceived as spoilers. It's all about perspective"

Nailedit.

[Wong-Wei]

I am impressed with the thoughtful consideration and support in this thread for such a seemingly trivial matter!

While I am not experienced enough to get how incidents like these can be avoided, if the University Diplodirectorsauruses wish to extend a friendly peace offering, I would be more than happy to ship an Iteron V full of Fruit Baskets to the offended party (and maybe a copy of the Fleet Command Skillbook?) o7

[Space Warfare Development]

Unfortunately, the images I took were not during the carnage but what the wreckyard looked like three hours later when I revisited the system.
The screenshot is of a mass of tier 1 drones. If you still want to see it, how do I send a .jpeg or .png through this forum?
I keep getting a denial prompt.

[Analiese Aubernet]

Post it to imgur, right click on it and copy link to image. Then put it inside of some [.img]image_address.[/img] tags.

... also anyone running something in FW lowsec who then complains about being shot is delusional. Excellent kills Kontxesi!

[Neonen]

ShareX for example has the function of automatically uploading your taken screenshot to imgur, makes spamming the screenshot button more enjoyable.

Isn't Black Rise one of the few areas people actually go to for pewing in lowsec anyway? So hosting a FFA there sounds like a not-so-bright idea.

[Marn Vermuldir]

You didn't do anything wrong!

If the organizer made no attempt to convo you, or anyone in the fleet for that matter, you couldn't have reasonably known it was anything other than an unusual amount of traffic in that system. You can't be expected to keep up with every special event that happens in game, and just having random mentions about it in local alone, which most people ignore, isn't sufficient.

Yes, he could have picked a better place to host his event, but that wasn't as relevant as his failure to adequately communicate with Kontxesi. If he had done so, I'm sure Kontxesi would have considered moving the fleet on. I know I would have if I was in her position.

While it is sad to hear that someone say they have lost respect for us, I think it is just a bit egotistical to assume we already knew about his event and purposely showed up to ruin it.

Anyway, hope you're able to get in touch with him and straighten things out a bit. If not, well, at least you tried.

[Kontxesi Buchanan]

I really appreciate all of your responses. I'm not going to act like I wasn't really upset after I tried to go back to bed. I decided that I was a complete scrub and an embarrassment and that I was never going to FC again.

Luckily, I don't normally act on the decisions I make at 3:00AM.

As I've read your comments and had time to think about it throughout the day, I've definitely come to realize that there really wasn't anything I did wrong, and many ways he could have tried to get our attention. I do feel bad if I discouraged any new players, though.

If is this is going to be sent up to directors and diplomats, I will hold off on sending my apology until told otherwise, I guess?


I went back to my recording and got a completely garbage screenshot. There is plenty more loot outside of camera range, too. Please ignore the terrible quality, I don't have my OBS settings up very high. https://prnt.sc/gnorx4

[Rikki Bigg]

Step back and remember that EVE is a mmorpg, and that from an outsider looking in, perspectives are dependent on viewpoint, so follow along with me for a moment.

First, the location in low sec faction warfare pvp hotzone is not really the point, yes it is relevant in a vacuum, but look past that.

You might compare the situation to Uni and high sec wardeccers; we are just here trying to teach newbro's, and it is in poor taste to declare war and farm new players that visit trade hubs unaware.

Stepping back a moment, and looking at other mmorpg's; take the example of a public funeral, on a pvp server, that is invaded by 'hard core' players and slaughtered. Sure, it's fun for some of the people, and hopefully reminds everyone not to take the game too seriously (even though they might be honoring someone that has passed on outside of game).

I do give Fin credit for his commentary on stream advertising the event: Come out, but maybe move to a different plex, E-Uni is here (not quite adhering to the event), so be careful, and if they stay here too long, someone else bigger might come and visit them. He took it in stride, and didn't let it bother him too much. You can feel remorseful at what happened for a moment Kontxesi, but don't carry it with you.

Now as far as actual rules of engagement, I will make a comment, and this is as a player that is a member of E-Uni, not as a diplomat, so don't take this out of context or as law;

I can agree that public sentiment might be completely different as far as whether this action was griefing or not (in my opinion something that skates close to the 'Our members treat all players both inside and outside EVE University with respect' portion of our Code of Conduct), and the main delineation would be if this was premeditated or not.

The fleet being unaware that there was a ffa event going on, notwithstanding the choice of location or other circumstances, goes a long way to provide a teaching moment (both to the uni pilots and the ffa event at large), and help remedy the sour feelings of some that consider the actions of Uni to be in poor taste.

[Michael Alderman]

I really appreciate all of your responses. I'm not going to act like I wasn't really upset after I tried to go back to bed. I decided that I was a complete scrub and an embarrassment and that I was never going to FC again.

Aw, now *I* feel bad. I suppose I should have tried to make sure it wasn't interpreted that way, which wasn't my goal, to say the least. It's quite difficult to write messages like that where it can't be interpreted in a way I didn't intend. The message was long in part precisely because I was trying to be clear. But, of course, I hadn't gotten our side of it, either, when I posted.

Far from it, I think we all really appreciate what you do. You help create content for people so they can enjoy the game, and you put a lot of personal effort and time into it. People like you are what makes EVE, not to mention EVE Uni, so great!

So I'm glad you don't feel that way, anymore. And I have to agree that checking messages in the middle of the night is probably not the best idea of all time. lol

Apologies if I made any of you feel that way.

[Wong-Wei]

Don't you feel bad either there, Alderman. I think it speaks well of you and the U to report things like this in consideration of our policies, regardless where the consensus ultimately lands. Even in it, you endeavored to explore the least desired perspective academically, and such attitudes, IMHO, help keep an honest effort in what policies the University profess. Buchanan has nothing to apologize for, but neither do you. Thank you for the vigilance. o7

[Kontxesi Buchanan]

I finally got around to looking at the killboards of the people we killed. I was thinking I'd shoot any of the new ones some ISK for the ship they lost or something.

Notaone of those guys is a new player; almost every single one of them has lost a T2 ship in the past. I'm actually pretty irritated about this now.

[Michael Alderman]

I finally got around to looking at the killboards of the people we killed. I was thinking I'd shoot any of the new ones some ISK for the ship they lost or something.

Notaone of those guys is a new player; almost every single one of them has lost a T2 ship in the past. I'm actually pretty irritated about this now.

To be fair, it's *aimed* at new players, hence the T1 only frigates for accessibility reasons. I assumed there would be some, but apparently a better job could be done bringing those players into the event. Might have been the first one, I think. I don't think anyone knew there were so few new players attending until now. But clearly little to no damage was done to new players, here. And I use the term damage loosely. I mean, it's EVE, in low sec, during a rather brittle event in a very popular PvP location.

Very nice of you to want to shoot them some ISK, though I'd say totally not necessary, even if they were new players. For me, it was just a matter of "hm, some people seem to have gotten the wrong idea about us here, so in the name of public relations, let's talk with them and keep in mind this happens every Sunday in Prism".

Simply a misunderstanding that is easy to clarify, no more or no less. One which, once clarified, makes us look good because we demonstrated good intentions. In other words, there was much more to gain by just clarifying things than to ignore them. In a certain sense, it was an opportunity. But, of course, I'm Canadian and like to apologise for everything.

I don't think it's really worth having strong feelings either way. Part of me regrets even bringing it up, but I shouldn't, because I think I did the right thing. At minimum, we don't really want to throw a wrench into the event, I think, so we need to be at least aware that it's happening to make an informed decision. My initial message probably could have been worded better, in hindsight, but I did my best to be impartial, clear, and objective with it. And I didn't mess it up *that* bad.

As a side note, in some ways, you remind me of me. I tend to let my perceived mistakes bother me for days. And as a second side note, holy heck, that was quite the debris field! XD

[Kontxesi Buchanan]

You weren't wrong to mention it to me. I just think the person who mentioned it to you with maybe still a little emotional about it and could have waited a day and representative more clearly. But now that I know exactly who was affected and what went wrong, I will certainly send a letter tonight just to clarify what happened and that it won't happen again.

I was mostly bothered because I thought I'd ruin the night for a bunch of new players. Now that I know that that is not the case, this is absolutely no big deal and I'm not really upset at all. Just deal with it and not do it again.

I am using voice to text, so please excuse any weird errors.