E-UNI to set up camp in NPC Fountain

[Xolani1990]

SPOILER WARNING!

Shamelessly stolen.

[Malaika Velystanis]

EVE University is not attempting to give its students 100% of "the nullsec experience". There is no way to do that without compromising our neutrality, which (I hope) we will never do. Encouraging students to join an actual nullsec organization will perform that task much more effectively and with far less risk to IVY than attempting to do it all ourselves. The point of the NSC seems to be the expansion of the level of experience we can provide to students. It is not to become a nullsec entity ourselves and give them complete exposure. If those students who participate in the NSC get their taste and say "yum!" then they are encouraged to complete their experience by joining TEST or (insert any other nullsec alliance here).

Which is completely fair. I guess I'm mostly concerned by all the talk (theoretical I know, but it's still out there) about how we're going pick who can go out in order to "protect the innocent from themselves". The Uni already has rules for what happens to students who go out and pick fights they're not supposed to - they get kicked out. This is a really good chance for a lot of people who probably wouldn't otherwise make it to go and see what Nullsec is all about -without- having to commit ourselves to a Nullsec alliance and all the rivalries and restrictions that entails. Yeah, some students probably will like it and join TEST (or whoever), and a lot will probably hate it and come back home early. I'm just worried we'll get too caught up in babysitting our own people to even really provide that "taste".

[Audrey Thinkerbolt]

Will Huntrkll join the NSC and perhaps even FC some fleets?

[DurrHurrDurr]

I think the main idea that everybody should keep in mind is that no matter how hard you try nor how much you insist that it has to be done in any particular way, TEST cannot radically change the way IVY does things, in much the same way that IVY cannot radically change the way TEST does things. Accepting that will probably kill a good amount of potential unnecessary drama before it even begins.

Along the same lines, it is of course quite possible to learn something in relative or even complete safety. Large amounts of danger is not equivalent to increased education. However, in many situations you can learn much more once you expose yourself to any associated dangers, which is why so many people advocate it especially for inherently dangerous activities in EVE Online. But it is never a requirement, as any lecturer would tell you.

EVE University is not attempting to give its students 100% of "the nullsec experience". There is no way to do that without compromising our neutrality, which (I hope) we will never do. Encouraging students to join an actual nullsec organization will perform that task much more effectively and with far less risk to IVY than attempting to do it all ourselves. The point of the NSC seems to be the expansion of the level of experience we can provide to students. It is not to become a nullsec entity ourselves and give them complete exposure. If those students who participate in the NSC get their taste and say "yum!" then they are encouraged to complete their experience by joining TEST or (insert any other nullsec alliance here).

By moving into nullsec, you, by definition, get full exposure of the things nullsec has to offer.

I didn't at all imply that TEST would change the way E-UNI does things, and let me make totally clear that TEST has absolutely no designs on ever adopting any of the structural systems of E-UNI. However, operating in nullsec at all will either force you to change/streamline your process or have your nullsec outpost end up being a hilarious failure. let me demonstrate some of what I mean.

Gibson Thunderbird
Director of Special Projects
16 Apr 2012 08:39
Re: E-UNI to set up camp in NPC Fountain Note to everyone anticipating a try at the Null Sec Camp:
The attendance at the Null Security Camp (NSC) Eve University Event will be by individual permission to applicants from either Director of Human Resources Darian Reymont or Director of Special Operations Vice Admiral Gibson Thunderbird.
As this is NOT a '101' level opportunity, a minimum of Sophomore status is required as is an understanding of null sec risks and rewards. The Directors have additional considerations that will be discussed with individual applicants at the appropriate time. It may be premature to move anything close to the suspected NSC at this time, as the logistics of that move have not been made public, and there are a number of opportunities.
Also, travel through Sov Null (required to get to the NSC) has NOT been granted, so visiting the camp without permission is a violation of University rules. Recent University rules violations are a basis for denial of attendance at the NSC event. I am at the NSC and around the local area and will notice any Unistas there.
Expect more and detailed information to follow. The University Staff have completed their analysis and set the foundation, and are in the process of achieving the remaining infrastructure requirements just now.
We have a great learning opportunity here not only for the student population but also for the University itself. This is the manifestation of our efforts at continuous improvement and adaptation.
Please have a bit more patience and all will become crystal clear.
Cheers,
Gibs
And NO, please do not bombard Darian or me with requests - they will be trashed until the official notice is given.

This mail had me laughing out loud. Permission to go to NPC fountain will be given individually to applicants from the HR division? Going there early will break the rules of nullsec travel? There's no real infrastructure requirement to go down to NPC Fountain. Black Frog, a public JF service, delivers there. As blues you already have access to TEST JF services to get anything delivered from Jita to our player-owned home station system. The NPC portion in and of itself has a robust market out there thanks to the other residents (in some areas it's even better than our home staging system).

Needing a permission slip and director interview, as well as a minimum membership length is laughably obtuse and I originally thought that the mail was a fake. The part that got to me the most was that going to nullsec to learn about nullsec requires a previous understanding of "nullsec risks and rewards". Wandering into nullsec and getting immediately thrown into the dumpster by some assface in a Cynabal is part of learning the risks and rewards of nullsec.

TEST and GSF recruit day-one newbies right out of character creation on a regular basis. Nullsec is, by definition, a harsh and brutal place. There's no need to coddle over people and make sure that their shirt's tucked in, their face is clean and they have all their pencil and ruler for their first day at school. EVE is, by definition, a sandbox, and you don't need to give children a half-hour seminar about proper sandbox procedure before leaving them to eat sand. They're going to eat the sand anyway, the best you can realistically hope to do is wipe their face and hope that the realization that sand tastes awful will keep them from eating it again.

I'll re-iterate what I said in the proxy-post Gerard posted for me. Nullsec is not a place of regimented structure, purpose and rules. Nullsec is a barren wasteland with a lot of bandits and no police. Instead of worrying about everyone having their permission slips and name badges on their person and clearly visible, you should probably be worried more about learning how to avoid getting camped into a station/dragged into a warp bubble. You're just wasting your time wagging your finger.

[Darian Reymont]

Okay, I'll try to clarify a few things, because Gibson's use of perhaps overly-officious language has seemingly offended people.

At present, the only requirement for taking part in the NSC is that you are a sophomore (4 weeks in the uni). This restriction exists because of discussions between ourselves and TEST leadership. If TEST communicates to me that such precautions are unnecessary, then we will remove them, but as yet they have told me no such thing (and they are in possession of the complete project outline).

There will be no interviews, no long selection process, no restrictions on skillpoints, pilot experience or ship/fitting requirements. You can have under a million SP and have never PvP'd before and you can still come out to the camp, providing you are a sophomore. Gibson and I will maintain a roster of active participants, which is hardly a bureaucratic monster, and yes, we reserve the right to tell you that you cannot come and play. Sorry.

I would remind everybody that we are working closely with TEST on this project, and just as I would ask any unistas to have faith in me, I would ask any members of TEST to have faith in their leaders to work hard towards providing the best possible camp for everybody. This was their idea, after all.

So relax. This is supposed to be fun.

[Yornic]

I love you DurrHurrDurr.

[Sarah Schneider]

I love you DurrHurrDurr.

We all love him and Darian, too bad they're both dudes Heyy, why's that a problem anyway?

[Yornic]

I love you DurrHurrDurr.

We all love him and Darian, too bad they're both dudes Heyy, why's that a problem anyway?

Never stopped me before. DAVID TRESSOR, COME HERE YOU SEXY BEAST.

Or maybe the time would be better spent explaining how to loose a dual nano'd Cheetah or a Tengu with an expanded cargo hold and more cargo than one would expect in an Inty V?

People in glass houses...

Hehe....you should seriously see Leeob's Hacgu. It's brilliant.

[DurrHurrDurr]

That's fair enough. The membership age requirement is completely reasonable; my attention was grabbed by the heavy use of bureaucracy buzzwords.

Another thing I thought I'd bring up is that your leadership seems to have a poor idea of the principles of being politically neutral in nullsec; what I mean being that it doesn't really exist. A group deploying into an area of nullsec for the sake of fights is common. There are many relatively apolitical entities in nullsec, however just by the fact that you offer light-blue standings to the vast majority of groups that seek it mean that, in nullsec, you have already taken some sort of political position. If a hostile gang comes out to NPC Fountain that you are blue to, and they shoot at the other residents of the region, and you shoot one, and not the other, you've already taken some sort of political stance.

The only way to remain truly politically neutral in nullsec is to shoot everyone or no one. It's okay to have bros in nullsec that you're not blue with or that you coordinate with another group on occasion; TEST and Pandemic Legion have historically done so even though PL has, in the recent past, attempted to snipe the home system of the anchor of the CFC (VFK, in case you were wondering).

It is impossible to be politically neutral with your standings. Your extensive standings list both positive and negative (http://standings.eveuniversity.org/) and your rules of engagement (http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/EVE_Unive ... Engagement) show that E-UNI is and historically never has been a "politically neutral entity". You are a politically reactive entity as shown by the fact that people with orange or red standings are tagged as "hostile to the alliance" and the rules of engagement in lowsec change.

E-UNI needs to be less worried about how they'll be seen politically; you're not politically neutral and you never have been, so pretending you are is pointless. What should be kept in mind, however, is that it is possible (and fairly easy) to not be politically relevant, which is what actually matters in nullsec. Just don't attack hostile strategic assets, which is easy enough considering E-UNI couldn't legitimately threaten the assets of any competent nullsec entity.

[Darian Reymont]

I think you may be over-complicating the concept of University neutrality, which is more of an internal standard than an external one. All it means is that we don't involve ourselves in the conflicts of others. The NSC doesn't effect this as our conflicts there will be our own. Internally, our neutrality will remain very much intact.

However, you are correct that the perception others have of our neutrality will be effected, that people will believe us to have chosen a side or to have taken a political stance. There's not much to be done about that sort of thing and I see little reason to worry about it, especially to the degree where it would prevent us from making the most of an excellent educational opportunity.

I agree that everybody should worry less, though.

[NightCypher]

E-UNI couldn't legitimately threaten the assets of any competent nullsec entity.

Emphasis on the operational word in that sentence. Luckily for E-UNI and everyone else, there are a fair few incompetent nullsec entities out there

[Tez Saurus]

E-UNI couldn't legitimately threaten the assets of any competent nullsec entity.

Emphasis on the operational word in that sentence. Luckily for E-UNI and everyone else, there are a fair few incompetent nullsec entities out there

Like TEST.

[Lazarus Wilde]

Can't wait till you guys (Darian and Gibson etc) publish your ruleset/plans for the NPC Fountain Camp. Just to end all the speculation and continuous bickering and every little point. And the sooner you guys get started and get it running the sooner that alot of these damn questions and theories are going to go away.
Learning is about making mistakes and realising why those mistakes are made. You can't really go wrong as Ivy League with what has been proposed so far. Practically everyone has come out and said that they love the idea of this. The only Naysayers are those who questioned the continued neutrality of the event and stopped questioning it after the fact that it was most likely to be temporary standings was posted.

Gibson lighten up and admit mistakes, we all make them. That Gila loss (I pointed DT to it) was horrific, same with the Flycatcher. I dont want to come across as being :elite: I'm by no means that, but in both those occasions they look from a purely killboard perspective to be sub-optimal fits which leave alot of ??? about them.

[Master Akira]

I find it funny that Darian of all people is now the less bureocratic higher-up in this whole thread

[David Tressor]

I find it funny that Darian of all people is now the less bureocratic higher-up in this whole thread

Darian is a pretty chill mate tbh.