## Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

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### Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

Hey everyone. Posted on the forums today was a pre-retribution update for EFT. I spent a while theory crafting and here are my preliminary findings. I did not meticulously check all of the numbers so some stuff maybe inaccurate, but it should be pretty solid. For reference all fits are computed with all skills at Level 5 and no fleet boosts.

All of these observations are through the eyes of a noob, they may be completely inaccurate and are my own opinions. Feel free to edit my fits and suggest changes.

EDIT: Apologies, I screwed up a few rigs in the logi section. A couple are T2 rigs, so the EHP may be slightly less than is show.

1. T1 Logi

Augoror:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
12.5% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers and Energy Transfers
200% bonus to Energy Transfer Array transfer amount
Slot layout: 5 H (+1), 3 M (+1), 5 L, 3 turrets
Fittings: 650 PWG (+175), 275 CPU (+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+140) / 1650(+321) / 1550(+221)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1500(+562.5) / 300s(-35s) / 5 (+2.2015)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 210(+57) / 0.68(+0.055) / 10730000 / 6.8s (+0.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(+15) / 20(+15)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 62.5km(+20) / 385(+57) / 8(+3)
Cargo capacity: 465

Osprey:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
12.5% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount
5% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters and Energy Transfers
200% bonus to Energy Transfer Array transfer amount
Slot layout: 5 H (+1), 5 M (+1), 3 L, 1 turret (-2), 2 launchers
Fittings: 425 PWG (-50), 410 CPU (+135)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1650(+477) / 1000(+24) / 1450(+356)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+531.25) / 275s(-26.25s) / 5 (+2.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 200(+47) / 0.59(+0.085) / 11230000 / 6.2s (+0.9)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20 / 20
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km(+12.5) / 350(+39) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 16 Gravimetric (+2)
Cargo capacity: 485

Exequror:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
12.5% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L (+3), 3 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 610 PWG (+110), 275 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(+101) / 1400(+227) / 1600(+506)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+375) / 264s(-92.25s) / 5.2 (+2.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+81) / 0.61 / 11020000 / 6.3s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10) / 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+7.5) / 365(+43) / 8(+3)
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric (+2)
Cargo capacity: 495 (-105)

Scythe:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
12.5% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount
5% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use
Role Bonus:
1000% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters
100% bonus to Logistic Drone (both armor and shield) rep amount
Slot layout: 3 H (-2), 5 M (+2), 5 L (+2), 2 turrets (-1), 1 launcher (-1)
Fittings: 310 PWG (-115), 315 CPU (+90)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(+424) / 1100(+124) / 1300(+324)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1250(+468.75) / 240s(-38.75s) / 5.2 (+2.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 250(+47) / 0.6(+0.095) / 11110000 / 6.2s (+0.9)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 45 (+40) / 45 (+40)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km(+15) / 400(+55) / 8(+2)
Cargo capacity: 475 (+35)

As well, all medium reppers have had their fittings reduced

Holy %@*#& they seem powerful. I was under the understanding that the trade off would be T1 logistics, but with lower tanks and sensor strength. While that is somewhat true, it was not to nearly the extent I thought it would be. The first thing I want to point out is the medium repper:

For contrast, here is the large repper on a Basi:

As you can see, the difference is relatively minor. When you take into account the training time between the two, the power of the new medium repper is quite astounding. The big difference comes with the fact that mostly the T1 logi boats will only have 3 reppers, while the T2 will have 4, but you can actually run 4 on a few T1 fits. The armor reps are the same as shield.

The next thing you can notice is the sig radius of the new ships. 75-95m on all these ships, with the armor ships have the lower base sig radius. Hitting these ships is going to be hard. With the low sig radius in mind, I use abs on most of my fits for a stronger speed tank. It may be that mwd is going to be better, but this is what I like so far.

Lets jump into my favorite of the new logi boats, the truly op Osprey:

Heavy tank, pretty good sensor strength (at least enough to not make it a joke to any ewar on field), strong reps, excellent cap stability, this thing has it all. You can also run as a 4/1 osprey and be cap stable too, but that is going to be with good skills. Take a look at the ridiculousness:

With this ship, it can rep at rates very close to a Basi. On a blaster rohk with a heavy resist tank, the basi reps give 1732 ehp/s. The new 4/1 osprey achieves 1437. Considering the cost difference and the skill difference, that is quite small.

I as well, threw together a kiting osprey, which I am sure will have a fair bit of use in our SCOG fleets. Take a look:

As you can see, slightly less tank, but excellent speed, a high sig radius, but not ridiculous, and as well, it will still have strong reps. You can switch out for another ET easily, though you may have to replace a cap relay with a power grid mod to make it fit. As well, running 3/2 on the kiting basi, you will be able to drop the cap rig for more tank.

Overall, this seems like shield fleets are going to have a big boost with the ability for low sp players to fly very effective ospreys.

The next one is my second favorite, the Augoror:

Another very solid ship. The tank is smaller than the Osprey, but the trade off is almost half the sig radius, albeit with a lower speed. As well, the higher sensor strength is and advantage in large fleets where you could be facing ewar. The mids can be switched out as need though for more utility. I tried fitting a 1600mm plate Augoror, but I found that you would need more pg rigs or mods, so the tank would be the same, with less resists usually. You can switch this to a 4/1 as well, with some playing around with pg rigs/mods. I didn't make up a mwd version of this ship, mostly because I feel like that would not be useful in an armor fleet. Everyone will be moving slow already, and the ballooned sig radius will make you easy to kill very quick.

Moving on, we have what will probably be in contention for the most used logi boat (with the osprey), the Scythe:

The big downside to the solo logis is that they can't run 4 reppers, meaning that they will be weaker than the ET logi. Still, this is a strong ship. You can see the tank is weaker than the osprey. The sig radius is a bit smaller too. This isn't a bad ship, but it doesn't seem like it will be quite as ridiculously powerful as the osprey.

I also made a kiting Scythe:

This ship frustrated me. You can't really put any eccm on it because of the cap restrictions. You can drop both of the shield rigs for cap rigs so you can switch out the cap recharger for an eccm module, but that is going to be sacrificing some tank. I feel if you are going to be kiting, you are better off running 2 ospreys, instead of trying to use a Scythe. The speed is higher than the osprey, over 2km/s, but this isn't my preference at least.

Lastly, we have the new Exquror(ororororor?):

It looks fairly similar to the other logi, the advantage with this one though is that due to it's better cap and not having to fit a shield tank, the mids are free for cap rechargers. The fitting on this one is much looser, but I still found that it wasn't worth it to try to fit a 1600mm plate on it. Again, no mwd because the sig ballooning. This ship's sig is already the best of any of the new logi boats, only 80m. I wouldn't use this ship very much. If you are running armor, you probably have a few more ships, so you might as well be running Augorors.

You may have noticed that I did not use the drone bays at all. From what I have seen, it seems to me that they best use of the drones on these ships is going to be logi drones set up on the other fleet logi boats. The lower tank means that the logi should set up strong rep chains and drone reps so they can survive any initial damage in a fight.

As well, the bane of these ships is going to be alpha fleets. It is not going to take a lot to alpha these ships, so we will have to see what happens with fleet comps.

So at the end of this, what I think is that we are looking at some powerful new ships. For lower skilled players, these fits are going to need to be switched up a little for cap stability, but that is where the osprey and augoror will shine in a 3/2 setup. I look forward to seeing these ships in use in our fleets.

2. Logi Frigs

Inquisitor:
Frigate skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
10% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
500% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
Slot layout: 3 H, 2 M, 4 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 51 PWG, 135 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 225 / 500 / 330
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 400 / 200s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 / 3.6 / 1470000 / 4.95s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 36km / 900 / 7
Cargo capacity: 250

Bantam:
Frigate skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount
10% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use
Role Bonus:
500% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters
Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 2 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 39 PWG, 215 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 500 / 225 / 310
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 380 / 190s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 300 / 3.75 / 1480000 / 5.19s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km / 850 / 7
Sensor strength: 12 Gravimetric
Cargo capacity: 270

Navitas:
Frigate skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount
10% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use
Role Bonus:
500% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers
Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 3 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 49 PWG, 145 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 250 / 400 / 335
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 390 / 195s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 330 / 3.4 / 1450000 / 4.61s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 38km / 875 / 7
Sensor strength: 11 Magnetometric
Cargo capacity: 280

Burst:
Frigate skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount
10% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use
Role Bonus:
500% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters
Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 3 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 40 PWG, 205 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400 / 250 / 290
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 370 / 185s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 335 / 3.55 / 1420000 / 4.72s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 34km / 925 / 7
Cargo capacity: 260

It is nice to see that ccp took some almost useless frigates and gave them a new lease on life. From looking at them, they seem quite a bit less useful than their big brother cruiser counterparts, but I am sure a place will be found for them. For this, I am only going to look at the Bantam and Inquisitor, because the frigs are mostly the same (only the slot layout changes).

The Bantam:

The first thing you may notice with the bantam is that it has no ET. None of the frigs have ET, which means that cap stability is going to be more difficult for lower skilled players. If needed, the shield rigs can be dropped for more cap rigs. the sig, tank, etc, is not bad, but the thing that leaves this ship behind is the rep amount:

Looking at this, you can see that the rep amount (and range) is significantly less than the new t1 logi. One t1 logi frig is doing slightly more reps than a single repper on the new logi boats. As well, the range is fairly short. The issue I see with this is because of the rep amount, I can only see this logi boat being useful in frig wolf packs, where resists are usually lower, meaning less effective reps, and where ships are flying around fast in all directions, so you might not have the range to rep them. Still, we will have to see when they actually release these ships for if they can fulfill any niche role.

The Inquisitor:

Looking at this, you can see it is the same story as the Bantam. Lower sig, no ET, more difficult cap stability, etc. Again, I see the usefulness of this logi frig as being lessend, because with the low training time, you might as well be flying a logi cruiser.

Like I said, the other 2 logi frigs are about the same as these last two. The only big difference is that they are 3/3/3 slot layout. The cap rate is all the same, the sigs are very similar, and they all have similar fitting. I am curious to see what people do with these ships, but in the end I don't see them as being nearly as useful as the T1 cruisers that are coming out as well.

Alright, time for the next big one, the one many people have been waiting for:

3. New Destroyers

AMARR DESTROYER:

The Amarr destroyer is designed to take down opposition through indirect means. On the downside, the damage is nothing to write home about, but the combination of energy disruption ability plus drone control makes it dangerous at shutting enemy frigates off, then finishing them properly when they're helpless. It also has quite a generous dronebay, for multiple drone replacements.

Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone damage and hitpoint per level
+20% bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer range per level
Role bonus:
+25% to ship capacitor recharge rate
Slot layout: 6 H, 2 M, 4 L, 3 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 750 / 950 / 850
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 600 / 370s / 1.62s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235 / 2.75 / 1700000 / 4.71s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 39km / 525 / 6
Cargo capacity: 300

CALDARI DESTROYER:

Missiles, missiles, missiles, missiles, that's what this hull is all about. It spams missiles a quite a long range, and boasts improved explosion velocity to catch those pesky annoying little orbiting frigates.

Ship bonuses:
+5% to rocket and light missile kinetic damage per level
+10% to rocket and light missile explosion velocity per level
Role bonus:
+50% to rocket and light missile velocity
Slot layout: 8 H, 3 M, 2 L, 8 launchers
Fittings: 45 PWG, 210 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 950 / 750 / 750
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 500 / 320s / 1.56s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 250 / 2.5 / 1900000 / 4.89s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 475 / 7
Sensor strength: 12 gravimetric
Cargo capacity: 450

GALLENTE DESTROYER:

Gallente are always about raw firepower, that's why this ship combines both turret and drone damage to achieve its goals. While the damage is lower than a Catalyst, remember that drone projection remains stable at much farther ranges (especially with drone damage amplifier changes below). On the downside, it has a limited dronebay next to the Amarr version, making it more difficult to replace lost drones.

Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone damage and HP per level
+5% to small hybrid turret damage per level
Role bonus:
+50% small hybrid turret optimal range
Slot layout: 6 H, 3 M, 3 L, 4 turrets
Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 / 850 / 950
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 550 / 350s / 1.57s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240 / 2.45 / 1800000 / 4.46s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42km / 500 / 7
Sensor strength: 11 magnetometric
Cargo capacity: 350

MINMATAR DESTROYER:

This ship is unique among all Destroyers as it has a bonus that improves survivability - it is designed to zip around in the battlefield at high velocities while spewing missiles. As a downside however it's less efficient at hitting fast moving targets at greater ranges than the Caldari hull is.

Ship bonuses:
+5% to rocket and light missile explosive damage per level
15% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty per level
Role bonus:
+50% to rocket and light missile velocity
Slot layout: 7 H, 3 M, 3 L, 7 launchers
Fittings: 48 PWG, 200 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 850 / 800 / 800
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 450 / 290s / 1.55s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 255 / 2.89 / 1600000 / 4.64s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 36km / 550 / 6
Cargo capacity: 400

As well, drone damage amplifiers were buffed, as well as fitting reductions on missile launchers.

With this patch, they have released some new ships for the first time in a good while. It is fun to have new hulls to play around with. My first impressions of these new ships has been...bad. I am not actually particularly excited for them. It seems from the start CCP has made issues with these ships and I am disappointed. Still, they aren't all bad and should still open up the possibility on dessie roams and in larger fleets.

The one I know so many are waiting for, the Corax:

This is my fit for a standard dps corax. The first thing you will notice when you get you hands on this ship is that the fitting is teeth gnashingly tight. I can not make enough inappropriate jokes to outline how tight the fitting is on this new ship. When fitting it out, especially with less than perfect skills, you are going to find that you will need to use multiple fitting mods/rigs to get anything to work. With that in mind, the dps corax is not a bad ship. 242dps at ~12km is nothing to sneeze at, and the feels more like a destroyer tank should be. My second corax I made was a special inty killer corax:

This is where you can really see just how tight the fitting is. You won't have a tank anywhere near the other dessies with this range fit, and your speed is as well lacking. The big thing I like about this fit is simply that it could be the bane of inties. The range and damage of the missiles, as well as the explosion radius and velocity make it so that it should be able to shred even the fastest and furthest orbiting inty. If needed, the missiles can be switched for faction or higher damage T2 to get a higher range, enough to hit loki boosted inties.

In the end, the much awaited corax leaves me feeling dissapointed. I feel that they made the pg and cpu too low to make this dessie feel like it lives up to its potential.

The next new guy, The Dragoon:

Before I post a fit, I want to say a few things. The dragoon was the destroyer that looked the most interesting to me. A T1 neut boat? It seemed like it could be quite a bit of fun and very powerful. What we got was a destroyer with a split weapon layout and no bonuses to turrets or missiles, with neuting power that is severely lacking. The cap is a nightmare if you are trying to neut. This is what a neuting Dragoon looks like:

Cap stability is just a dream. You can run less tank, an ab, and you will be able to get it there, but that is sacrificing so much for only a 12 km neut. You won't be able to stop any frigs with a point, only if they come into scram range. The big thing I feel with this ship is to ignore the "bonuses" for neuting and run it as a gun/drone boat. Here is what I came up with:

When you ignore the neuts, this actually turns into quite a powerful dps boat. With it not having any bonuses to weapon systems, you are free to pick whatever you want for the highs, allowing better fits in the mid and lows if you pick acs. I actually quite like this destroyer when you fit it for straight dps. Now I couldn't leave this ship alone without a neut variation. This is what I settled on as my personal favorite:

Strong dps, strong tank, fairly good neuts (albeit not at a huge range), this is a solid ship. The big issue is that you can't fit a point. It will cost you more because of the cap boosters you need, but in the end I think this fit is in contention for my favorite new destroyer.

Do I smell duct tape? Yes, it is the new Talwar:

From the beginning, I wasn't quite sure what to do with this ship. I settled on making it into a faster, heavier tackle because of its mwd sig radius reduction. The damage on this ship is going to be the worst out of any of the new destroyers, but it is going to be a fast and agile little bugger to have around. I am not going to bother making a light missile variation because I doubt I could keep the mwd with the pg and cpu increases of the longer range missiles.

Finally, we have my personal favorite, theAlgos:

Boy do I love this new destroyer. The tank is good, and the big thing is that the damage is huge! The setup above is running 2 hammerheads/3 hobgobs so it is higher than it will be against small targets, but not by much (412 dps with only hobgoblins). As well, the drone bay is nice and large so you can store plenty of extra flight for whatever you want to do. Sadly, I feel like you are going to be the first primary in a fight, simple because it will be known that you are going to be the biggest threat in small gang pvp.

The new destroyers are not the big bad powerful small gang ships that I was hoping for, but neither are they the feeble cousins of the current destroyers. They will have a strong place in pvp and it is going to be fun to see them used.

4. Cruiser Carnage

-Drop the powergrid usage of Focused Medium Pulse lasers by 5%
-Drop the powergrid usage of Heavy Pulse lasers by 10%
-Drop the powergrid usage of all cruiser sized beam lasers by 10%
-Drop the powergrid usage of all cruiser sized artillery by 10%

Omen:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use
5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret rate of fire
Slot layout: 5 H, 3 M, 6 L (+1), 5 turrets
Fittings: 925 PWG (+195), 315 CPU (+65)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(+27) / 1700(+137) / 1500(-63)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1475(+225) / 526s(+79.75s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235(+54) / 0.51(-0.05) / 11650000 / 5.6s (-0.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 40(+30) / 40(+30)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+10) / 300(+7) / 6(-1)
Cargo capacity: 400(-50)

Caracal:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire
10% bonus to Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Velocity
Slot layout: 5 H, 5 M, 4 L (+2), 2 turrets, 5 launchers
Fittings: 630 PWG (+100), 430 CPU (+80)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1700(+137) / 1200(+145) / 1400(+71)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1250(+187.5) / 445s(+63.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 230(+52) / 0.46 (+0.035) / 11910000 (-1,000,000) / 5.1s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 10
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 57.5km / 270(+28) / 6
Sensor strength: 16 Gravimetric (+1)
Cargo capacity: 450

Thorax:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed
Slot layout: 5 H, 4 M (+1), 5 L, 5 turrets
Fittings: 820 PWG, 330 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-324) / 1600(-41) / 1600(+75)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+75) / 490s(+25.25s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+60) / 0.49(-0.0658) / 11280000 / 5.2s (-0.7)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km(-2.5) / 280(+21) / 6
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric
Cargo capacity: 465(+200)

Stabber:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed
7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff
Slot layout: 6 H, 4 M (+1), 4 L (+1), 4 Turrets, 2 Launchers
Fittings: 715 PWG (+15), 340 CPU (+40)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(+15) / 1400(+150) / 1300(+11)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+137.5) / 427.5s(+46.25s) / 2.8(+0.01)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 290(+59) / 0.5(+0.02) / 11400000 / 5.3s (+0.2)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km(+7.5) / 320(+15) / 5
Cargo capacity: 420

Newbro rejoice, the new cruisers are here. With the changes and the changes to the t1 logi, cruisers are going to be much more powerful and much more useful. I am going to start with the attack cruisers and finish up with combat cruisers, so I can leave the hated Vexor for last and you can see the source of my displeasure.

Right away you can see this is a MUCH improved ship. This fit is tight and would require a 1% cpu implant, but it at least gives you an idea of what you are looking at. Much higher dps, good speeds, this is going to be a formidable cruiser. The pg buff was perfect, allowing this ship to be excellent. Here is a HML kiting Caracal which is also going to be very strong:

The projection is great and the damage is still pretty good. You will need fitting rigs, but that was going to be something that will be likely needed for most of these fits with less than perfect skills. The only thing that I feel lets down the Caracal is its capacitor. This isn't going to be a long lived ship in fights because it just doesn't have the cap to keep going. An ab Caracal would work, but then you are losing quite a bit of speed. Overall, this new cruiser is actually going to be useful, and beyond that, pretty powerful.

The Omen:

I am just going to start off with the armor omen:

Right away you can see this is stronger. The tank is better, the cap stability is much better, this is going to be a fun ship. This is an ab omen, I was making this to be a poor mans ahac. I think that with logi, this could be a fun fleet ship to fly. You can as well go for a 800mm plate omen with not a huge reduction in tank. When you do that, you can run a mwd, but you will have more cap issues then. As well, you still will not be able to fit the Heavy Pulses because of pg. An 800mm ab omen can run Heavy Pulses with an ACR, but the damage increase is minor so I feel the lose on the tank is not worth it. For fun, I also made a shield omen:

Lower tank, and again cap issues, but the damage is nice. I wouldn't recommend this ship also because of how strong the Caracal and Stabber are going to be now.

Speak of the devil... the new Stabber:

First off, THANK YOU CCP FOR THE VISUAL UPDATE! This ship is no longer an eye sore and the Moa no longer has competition for the ugliest cruiser (well maybe the Blackbird).

What you will notice right away is that this ship is not as fast as the old stabber. The stabber now has more slots to compensate. As well, the falloff bonus is definitely not something to sneeze at. The 4 turret slots does leave this ship behind the other attack cruisers when it comes to damage. As well, the lack of drone bay hurts it too. I feel that the stabber is let down by those two facts and falls behind the other attack cruisers when it comes to it's power. I went all out of the dps for this fit:

To bring the dps up to a level complimentary to the other attack cruisers, you are sacrificing so much, It seems that it just isn't worth it to fly. In general, I really don't like this new stabber. I looked into arty/kiting fits but never had one that really felt like it was strong. Let's just move on.

The Thorax:

Arguably one of the best attack cruisers currently is now even better. Let's take a look:

Pulling from the old 1600mm Thorax, we can see that this is a strong ship. High dps, a good tank, with probably the best cap of the new attack cruisers. This is a strong armor ship. The big thing I like with the Thorax changes is that the shield Thorax is fairly strong now. Check out this insanity:

That is a scary looking ship. Still a respectable tank, with massive damage. You can beef the damage up even more by running medium drones. If you drop down to ion or electrons, you can increase the tank on this as well. In the end, this is one seriously scary cruiser.

These attack cruisers look like they are going to be a ton of fun. In the next few months, I feel like the Thorax and Caracal are going to be popping up everywhere. I can't wait to see these guys in action.

4b. Combat Cruisers

Maller:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage
5% bonus to all Armor Resistances
Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 3 M, 6 L, 5 turrets
Fittings: 1150 PWG (+250), 300 CPU (+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1000(-368) / 2300(+425) / 1700(-19)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1625(+125) / 565s(-72.5s) / 3.5 (+0.7)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 195(+31) / 0.52(-0.085) / 12050000 (+500000) / 5.9s (-0.6)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 (+15) / 15 (+15)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km / 280(+10) / 6
Cargo capacity: 480 (+200)

Moa:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
5% bonus to shield resistances
Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 5 M (+1), 4 L, 5 turrets, 0 Launchers (-2)
Fittings: 850 PWG (+70), 380 CPU (+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2300(+425) / 1000(-329) / 1600(+76)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1500(+125) / 475s(-16.25s) / 3.15 (+0.35)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 190(+26) / 0.52 (-0.02) / 12220000 (+500000) / 5.9s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 260(+7) / 7
Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric (+1)
Cargo capacity: 450 (+200)

Vexor:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+1), 4 turrets
Fittings: 800 PWG (+125), 300 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(-73) / 2000(+515) / 2000(+515)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+200) / 482.5s(+36.25s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 205(+36) / 0.53(-0.04) / 11310000 (+1000000) / 5.6s (+0.1)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 125 (+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km / 280(+4) / 6(+1)
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric (+2)
Cargo capacity: 480

Rupture:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L, 4 turrets, 1 launchers (-1)
Fittings: 860 PWG, 350 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(-63) / 1800(+159) / 1500(-63)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1275(+25) / 425s(-21.25s) / 3(+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 210(+18) / 0.5 (-0.04) / 12200000 (+550000) / 5.7s (-0.2)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 30 / 30
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km(+5) / 290(+8) / 6(+1)
Cargo capacity: 450 (+150)

Oh boy oh boy, this is where the T1 logi is going to come in handy. The new combat cruisers have juicy bonuses to resists or very strong damage. Lets get this going so you can read about my hatred for the new Vexor.

The ugly duckling itself, the Moa:

The Moa was one of the first ships I flew way back. I have always loved this ugly little ship, so I am very pleased to annouce that it is quite the cruiser now. Let's take a look:

Whoooowee! Now that is more like it! With a serious tank and excellent damage, this is going to be a nasty ship to throw into fleets. You can add an ACR and upgrade to neutrons if you want to trade some tank for more damage. This ship is going to be a nasty brawler in cruiser gangs.

T1 AHAC time! It's the Maller:

HOLY TANK! They did not take away the brick Maller from us. The tank on this thing is incredible. The damage is definitely smaller, but T1 AHAC fleets could have real potential with the Maller. I really like this ship. You can also go for a lower tank, higher damage, mwd maller like this one:

With the cap booster, this ship keeps going for a while. The tank is still very strong, the dps is nice, this is also a very solid ship. The Maller is going to be the real winner of the combat cruisers in my opinion.

The good ol' Rupture:

The big issue with the rupture is that it is bonused for damage, with only 4 turret hardpoints again. This means it doesn't have the tank of the Maller or Moa and doesn't see the biggest damage boost. Still, this is a strong cruise, though I think it is the weakest of the 4. Let's look at this first all dps rupture:

The damage is good, the tank is not bad, but I feel that this cruiser is out of place in the combat cruiser section. It doesn't feel significantly different. As well, it doesn't feel particularly special either. If you want to run a neut in the high, you lose a fair bit of cap and damage, making this ship feel weak. Let's try this with an arty fit:

Aha, this is more like it. With the pg changes to artillery, this fit starts to feel useful. With a fair tank, but with strong range and good damage at range, this feels like a good choice. Let's do one last fit with the armor rupture:

Ah, that feels pretty good too. The solo armor rupture looks like it is still going to be a strong choice. In the end, the rupture feels a little left out from the party with what the other combat cruisers got. I like all the others better, but this definitely isn't a worthless ship.

Finally, the Vexor:

The first thing you can see is that this is a high damage ship. The Vexor has no bonuses to resists, but has both a hybrid and a drone damage bonus. As well, the drone bay/bandwidth allows for incredible dps against larger targets. This ship is going to be a menace in fights. I made a quick armor Vexor too:

Strong tank, with the very strong damage too, this will also be a very good choice.

Now I am sure you are frustrated with my constant hinting at why I hate the Vexor so much. It is not because it is weak, but because it is strong. Here is the big reason why:

That is a 1000 dps gank vexor. That is insane. A fleet of 15-20 of them could suicide gank a freighter. With the costs of a Vexor being what they are, a gank fleet could cost only 300-400mil isk. If you are flying a freighter around, dock up until everything with this possible gank Vexor settles down. This could be something huge for high sec gankers, we will really have to see what comes of it.

My final thoughts on the combat cruisers: Man do I love them. The Maller and Moa are going to be wonderful ships to fly. Cruise fleets with logi have some serious potential, I can't wait to see what happens.

5. Missile Changes

Every Drake pilot in the game has been dreading these changes, while all the other missile pilots are quite happy. When you actually look into them, overall I think missiles are going to be better. Here is a quote of what the missile changes are:

All Missiles
Increase missile acceleration so that real range is much closer to the client assumed range of flighttime*speed against a stationary target. This means a slight range buff for all missiles, and missiles will act in a way that is more intuitive to newer players.

Short Range Missiles
Change the Guided Missile Precision skill, as well as all associated implants and rigs to affect all subcap missiles
Reduce HAM launcher PG requirements by 10%

Light Missiles
-Decrease all Light Missile Launcher fitting requirements by 2pg and 4cpu
-Explosion radius reduced from 50 to 40
-Damage increased by 10% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant light missiles, including FOF.

Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 35%
-Base velocity increased by 14.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 10% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.

Tech Two Missiles
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius)
-Precision: Increase bonuses to explosion velocity to +20%, increase damage to match T1 missiles
-Fury: Increase damage bonus to +35%, reduce flight time to 75% of T1, unify penalties to explosion radius (+72%) and velocity (-16%) across the sizes
-Javelin: Just remove ship penalties
-Rage: Increase damage bonus to +35%, Unify flight time to match T1, unify velocity penalty (-16.7%), unify penalty to explosion velocity (-14%), increase penalty to explosion radius (+72%)

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
Tracking mod and disruptor changes moved out of this release until the first set of changes settles a bit

In the end what we are looking at is that missiles are stronger. Yes, HMLs have shorter range, but due to the T2 missile changes, the damage is still good at their range. As well, all other missiles are a fair bit stronger. Let's run two comparisons. The old HML drake to the new one, and the old HAM drake to the new one. Let's start with the HML Drake:

Old Drake:

New Drake:

You will notice that I am running faction missiles on the old Drake and T2 on the new one. If I put faction on the new one, the damage would be smaller and the range slightly more, but there is no reason not to use the T2 missiles now. As you can see, the damage is actually slightly higher on the new Drake because of the missile buffs, albeit with a significantly reduced range. Let's look at the HAM Drake now:

Old Drake:

New Drake:

As you can see, quite a big dps difference there. I did do the faction/T2 missile split again, so make sure you take note of that. From the looks of this, HAM Drakes are going to be darn deadly brawlers now.

As we saw with the Caracal and the Corax, the changes are very helpful, allowing for previously unused ships to be more useful and allowing for powerful new ships. Missiles really did not get anything bad out of this expansion and are a very formidable weapon system now.

6. EWAR

This is going to be a big one for everyone. ECM getting a nerf, td as well, with buffs to damps and painters. Here are the full changes:

ECM
*Reduce Optimal Range and Falloff of all ECM modules by 10%
*Add to the Optimal Range and Falloff bonus on ECM range bonused ships by 2.5% for the Blackbird, Kitsune and Tengu Obfuscation Manifold (bringing it to 12.5%) and 5% for the Scorpion (bringing it to 25%)
*Add four new racial sensor compensation skills that increase each type of Sensor Strength by 4% per level (Requires Electronics 4, rank 2 skills in the Electronics category)

Damps
*Increase Optimal Range of all Remote Sensor Dampeners by 20%
*Set the Damp strength bonus on Damp bonused ships to 7.5% per level

Tracking Disruptors
*Reduce TD base module effectiveness by 5%
*Set the TD strength bonus on all TD bonused ships to 7.5% per level

Target Painter
*Set the TP strength bonus on TP bonused ships to 7.5% per level for T1 and 10% per level for T2

Arbitrator:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H, 4 M, 5 L (+1), 2 turrets, 2 launchers (+1)
Fittings: 575 PWG, 325 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(+84) / 1500(+132) / 1600(+232)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1375(+313) / 490s(+108.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 200(+41) / 0.56(-0.05) / 11200000 / 5.9s (-0.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 150
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 285(+3) / 7(+1)
Cargo capacity: 345

Blackbird:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength
10% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range and falloff
Slot layout: 4 H, 6 M, 3 L (+1), 3 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 525 PWG, 425 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(-6) / 1200(+145) / 1400(+267)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1250(+187.5) / 445s(+63.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 190(+9) / 0.48(+0.025) / 13190000 / 5.9s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10(+10) / 10(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 85km(+10) / 230 / 8
Sensor strength: 20 Gravimetric
Cargo capacity: 305

Celestis:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness
10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener optimal range and falloff
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 5 M, 5 L (+2), 3 turrets, 3 launchers (+1)
Fittings: 575 PWG, 375 CPU (+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(+27) / 1300(+11) / 1700(+411)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1300(+175) / 463s(+63s) / 2.8 (-0.01)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 210(+29) / 0.505(-0.06) / 12070000 / 5.7s (+0.7)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+10)/ 50(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km(+10) / 290(+2) / 8(+2)
Sensor strength: 18 Magnetometric
Cargo capacity: 320

Bellicose:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness
5% bonus to Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 5 M (+1), 4 L (+1), 4 launchers
Fittings: 575 PWG, 360 CPU (+110)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(+150) / 1200(-11) / 1500(+289)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+262.5) / 427.5s(+92.5s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+31) / 0.51 / 11550000 / 5.5s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 40 / 40
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42.5km / 300(+7) / 7
Cargo capacity: 315

Quite a lot, but what does it mean? I am going to just look at the Blackbird and Arbi. Sorry Falcon, Scorp, and Celestis pilots, you will have to check out the changes yourself.

Blackbird Old:

Blackbird New:

That's...um...some nerf they got going there. More range, more jam strength. I would probably drop a projector rig for a targeting range one to throw another jammer on there, but I did the same style of fit to show you the difference. So really all they have done is buff the blackbird. Don't forget the 10m3 drone bay too. Well let's see what they did with the Arbitrator:

Arbi Old:

Arbi New:

Oh look, it is stronger too. Let me be first to say that I do not fly the arbi so don't mock how bad my fits are, you can go and fit them properly later, this is just to look at TD changes.

So from what we have seen, EWAR seems stronger. The big thing that CCP wanted to do was nerf EWAR on non-dedicated ships. EWAR cruisers, all of them, are definitely now more powerful. As well, the Scorp and Falcon are not going to be any less useful. The racial sensor strength skill is going to hurt ECM, but overall any ewar pilots should be happy.

7. ASBs

Ancillary Shield Booster

Reduced capacity – 7 regular booster or 9 navy boosters.
Increased cap need when running without boosters.
X-Large booster now has duration of 5 seconds instead of 4.

Finally ASBs have been nerfed. For the longest time they have been the king of smaller fleet and solo combat, allowing for ridiculous tanking with no real way to shut down the tank. For this example I will be using Capricamper shore's famous ASB Raven:

Old Raven:

New Raven:

As you can see, quite a difference in how much is boosted and the capacity. 160m3-112m3 is going to be the big one. ASB ships are going to last no where near as long. You can see the EHP/s differences as well. This nerf is really going to change up the use of ASBs. I think they will still be useful in solo combat, but that is to be seen. It may be that now you might as well just throw a buffer tank on your ship because of the reductions. I haven't run the numbers on it yet, but I am sure someone will soon. The nerfs to the smaller sizes of ASBs is slightly less, but still significant.

CONTINUED IN A LATER POST
Last edited by Balthusdire Dominus on 2012.11.28 22:35, edited 4 times in total.

Member

### Re: Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

I think you are being a little unrealistic to assume perfect skills when looking at T1 logistic cruisers. Capacitor stability is everything so assuming that everyone has Energy Management V, and the shield/armor repair to V is quite the assumption (not all T2 logi pilots have these when starting out).

I would drop the racial cruiser, repair, and EM to IV and see how the fits change. Otherwise you are looking at the T1 logistics cruisers from the perpective of a highly skilled T2 logistics pilot.
Ex Senior Personnel Officer | KB | Twitter | Internet spaceships are very serious business!

Member

### Re: Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

Good job. And yes, those logis now look very, very nice. These boats will definitely be in Iteration 2 of our Fleet doctrine document.

North

Teaching Manager, Mentor. Founder of cheap +3 implants program. Responsible for cheap faction mods for Unistas programs

Member

### Re: Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

Can you run a similar theorycraft for Hurricane?

Vertor et revertor.

Member

### Re: Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

viewtopic.php?f=129&t=60594#p529337

This assumes p solid skills, iirc, but nothing too extreme if you're actually serious about PvPing with a Hurricane. Worst you might have to do is buy 2% PG implants (typically, every level of AWU is worth about 2% total PG, arty boats notwithstanding).

Member

### Re: Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

Alicia Fermi wrote:I think you are being a little unrealistic to assume perfect skills when looking at T1 logistic cruisers. Capacitor stability is everything so assuming that everyone has Energy Management V, and the shield/armor repair to V is quite the assumption (not all T2 logi pilots have these when starting out).

I would drop the racial cruiser, repair, and EM to IV and see how the fits change. Otherwise you are looking at the T1 logistics cruisers from the perpective of a highly skilled T2 logistics pilot.

This is just a theoretical look at the new changes. The perfect skills allows us to see comparisons of the power. As well, the T1 logi boats could be quite useful for people flying with full T2 logi skills when they want to run with cheap throwaway ships that are almost the same power. The Osprey and Aurgoror running 3/2 are probably going to be most used anyway and what I recommend for lower skilled players because then they can easily be cap stable.

As for the other ships, some tank, especially tank rigging will probably need to be dropped for fitting rigs. If meta 4 modules are used for damage, then that will also help with the fitting. Everyone will have to apply their own skill just to see what is going to be best.

Member

### Re: Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

NorthCrossroad wrote:Good job. And yes, those logis now look very, very nice. These boats will definitely be in Iteration 2 of our Fleet doctrine document.

North

I agree. These ships really feel like the little cousins of the bigger, badder T2 versions. I feel like this will really allow us to try out things like AHACs, kiting fleets, or logi without having to dedicate a ton of time training. These changes are made to order for the uni

Member

### Re: Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

POST #2

8. All the Rest

I am just going to throw the changes for the cane, current dessies, exploration frigs, etc in here just to quickly mention them before I move on to my conclusion. I don't have any fits set up for these, because they are fairly similar, but we can at least look at the changes.

Salvage Drones

Skill: Salvage Drone Operation.
Small drone (bandwidth 5). Base salvage chance 3% (skill gives 2% per level in addition).
Can be automated to salvage white and blue wrecks.
Can be manually set to salvage any wreck in range by targetting the wreck and choosing to salvage it.

Micro Jump Drive

Skill: Micro Jump Drive Operation.
Spool up time 12 sec. Jumps ca. 100 km. Cooldown 5 minutes. Battleship only. Affected by warp scrambled. Increases base sig radius.

Reactive Armor Hardener

Skill (Armor Resistance Phasing) now reduces cap need by 5% per level in addition to reducing cycle time.
Percentage change per cycle is now 6 instead of 3 (so resistances shift twice as fast).

Target Spectrum Breaker

Reduced duration to 8 seconds
Reduced scan resolution penalty to 25%

Since we planning to reduce the powergrid needs of all medium artillery by 10% across the board, we are also planning to subtract 225 PG from the Hurricane, leaving it with a base powergrid of 1125.

COERCER:

One medium slot is highly impractical for any kind of solo or even small gang fit and has been changed. Fittings also were quite low and should allow to squeeze medium pulse lasers, even medium beams with the module changes listed below.

Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
Slot layout: 8 H, 2 M (+1), 3 L (-1)
Fittings: 85 PWG (+10), 168 CPU (+8)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 700 (+12) / 900 (+40) / 800 (+70)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 700 (-3) / 370 s / 1.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 255 (+3) / 2.75 (-0.1485) / 4.28 s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 525 / 6

CORMORANT:

Swapped one medium for one low slot, altered fittings to compensate. Capacitor, agility and signature radius were inconsistent with other Caldari ships and have been adjusted.

Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
Slot layout: 8 H, 3 M (-1), 2 L (+1)
Fittings: 68 PWG (+13), 200 CPU (-15)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 900 (+40) / 700 (+12) / 700 (+23)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 600 (-25) / 320 s (-13) / 1.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 250 (+1) / 2.5 (+0.231) / 4.42 s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 36km / 475 / 7
Sensor strength: 12 Gravimetric

CATALYST:

Slot layout untouched. Brought capacitor amount, agility and signature radius in-line with the revamped frigates and other destroyer variants.

Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
Slot layout: 8 H, 2 M, 3 L
Fittings: 60 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 750 (+5) / 800 (-3) / 900 (+118)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 650 (+64) / 350 s (+37.5) / 1.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 265 (-1) / 2.45 (-0.352) / 4.04 s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 33km / 500 / 7
Sensor strength: 11 Magnetometric

THRASHER:

Left untouched apart from some minor adjustments.

Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
Slot layout: 8 H, 3 M, 2 L
Fittings: 70 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 (-3) / 750 (+5) / 750 (+125)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 550 (+3) / 290 s (-1.6) / 1.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 270 (+2) / 2.89 / 4.17 s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 27km / 550 / 6

MODULES:

The point of module changes is to increase usefulness of weapons we consider as either underpowered or just too difficult to fit right now. This includes medium beam laser, medium pulse lasers and light missiles.

All medium beam laser variations: -1 PWG and -1 CPU
All medium pulse laser variations: -1 PWG and -1 CPU
All light missile variations: explosion radius reduced from 50 to 40, damage increased by 10%

Kestrel:
Frigate skill bonuses:
5% Bonus to Missile damage per level
10% Bonus to Missile velocity per level
Slot layout: 4 H, 4 M (+1), 2 L, 4 launchers
Fittings: 45 PWG (+15), 180 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 500(+109) / 350(+37) / 350 (+84)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 330 (+80)/ 165s (-22.5s)/ 2 (+0.667)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 (+24) / 3.27(-0.6) / 1163000 / 3.56s (-0.65)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km (+10) / 620 (+155) / 5 (+2)
Sensor strength: 11 Gravimetric
Cargo capacity: 160 (-145)

Tristan:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level
10% Bonus to Drone tracking speed and hitpoints per level
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 3 M, 3 L, 2 turrets, 0 launchers (-2)
Fittings: 35 PWG (-3), 130 CPU (+5)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350(-41) / 450(+20) / 550 (+167)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 350 / 175s (-59.38s)/ 2 (+0.5)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 (+4) / 3.44 (-0.21) / 1106000 (+100000) / 3.56s (-0.02)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 (+20) / 40 (+35)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km (+12.5) / 600 (+10) / 5
Sensor strength: 9 Magnetometric
Cargo capacity: 140

Breacher:
Frigate skill bonuses:
5% Bonus to Missile damage per level
7.5% Bonus to Shield boost amount per level
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 4 M (+2), 3 L (+1), 3 launchers, 0 Turrets (-1)
Fittings: 35 PWG (+4), 180 CPU (+45)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 500(+149) / 350(+37) / 300 (+50)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 300 (+112.5)/ 150s (+9.37s)/ 2 (+0.667)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 350 (+16) / 3.16 (-0.62) / 1087000 (-100000) / 3.21s (-0.99)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 (+10) / 10 (+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 35km (+2.5) / 650 (+75) / 4 (+1)
Cargo capacity: 175

Magnate:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% increase to scan strength of probes
5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time
Slot layout: 3 H (+1), 3 M (+2), 4 L (+1), 2 turrets, 2 launchers (+2)
Fittings: 26 PWG (+4), 230 CPU (+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 250(+90) / 350(-36) / 250(+6)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 325 (+168.75)/ 180s (+62.8s)/ 1.8056 (+0.47)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 350 (+54) / 3.8 (-0.32) / 1072000 / 3.81s (-0.32s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(+5) / 40(+30)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 34km / 445 / 4
Cargo capacity: 400 (+243.75)

Heron:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% increase to scan strength of probes
5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time
Slot layout: 3 H (+1), 5 M (+2), 2 L (+1), 2 turrets (+1), 2 launchers
Fittings: 24 PWG (+4), 260 CPU (+10)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400(+126) / 200(-58) / 200(-26)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 245 (+88.75)/ 135s (+17.8s)/ 1.814 (+0.48)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340 (+20) / 3.57 (+0.04) / 1150000 / 3.84s (+0.04s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(+10) / 35(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37.5km / 430 / 4
Sensor strength: 12 Gravimetric
Cargo capacity: 400 (+243.75)

Imicus:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% increase to scan strength of probes
5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time
Slot layout: 3 H (+1), 4 M (+2), 3 L (+1), 1 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 21 PWG (+1), 250 CPU (+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 275(+50) / 325(-19) / 275(-14)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 270 (+113.75)/ 135s (+32.8s)/ 1.8 (+0.47)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 330 (+52) / 4.15 (-0.04) / 997000 / 3.87s (+0.04s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(+5) / 40(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 35km / 450 / 4
Sensor strength: 11 Magnetometric
Cargo capacity: 400 (+80)

Probe:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% increase to scan strength of probes
5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time
Slot layout: 3 H (+1), 4 M (+2), 3 L (+1), 2 turrets, 2 launchers (+2)
Fittings: 25 PWG (+5), 240 CPU (+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300(+105) / 300(+26) / 225(-49)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 235 (+78.75)/ 130s (+12.8s)/ 1.8 (+0.47)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 360 (+26) / 3.58 / 1123000 / 3.76s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(+5) / 35(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 32.5km / 465 / 4
Cargo capacity: 400 (+80)

CRUCIFIER:

Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness per level
10% Bonus to Tracking Disruptor optimal range per level
Slot layout: 2 H, 4 M (+1), 3 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 27 PWG (+2), 235 CPU (+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 250(-24) / 400(+25) / 350(+21)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 330 (+80)/ 180s (-7.5s)/ 1.8333333 (+0.5)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass): 350 (+68) / 3.35(-1.09) / 1064000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(+10) / 45(+40)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64km (+16.5) / 540 (+100) / 6
Cargo capacity: 265 (+100)

GRIFFIN:

Frigate skill bonuses (unchanged):
15% Bonus to ECM Jammer strength per level
10% Bonus to ECM Jammer cap use per level
Slot layout: 2 H (-1), 5 M (+1), 2 L (+1), 2 launchers
Fittings: 24 PWG (-1), 240 CPU (+15)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400(+9) / 250 / 250
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 245 (-5)/ 135s (-52.5s)/ 1.815 (+0.482)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass): 325 (+38) / 3.5(+0.14) / 1056000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km (+5) / 500 (+100) / 6 (+1)
Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric
Cargo capacity: 260 (+100)

MAULUS:

Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Sensor Damp effectiveness per level
10% reduction in Sensor Damp capacitor use per level
Slot layout: 2 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 3 L (+1), 2 turrets
Fittings: 28 PWG (+3), 230 CPU (+10)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300(-13) / 350(-1) / 400(+71)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 275 (+25)/ 150s (-37.5s)/ 1.8333333 (+0.5)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass): 375 (+69) / 3.25(-0.626) / 1063000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(+10) / 30(+20)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64.5km (+14.5) / 520 (+100) / 6
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric
Cargo capacity: 275 (+100)

VIGIL:

Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Target Painter effectiveness per level
10% Bonus to Target Painter optimal range per level
Slot layout: 2 H (-1), 5 M (+2), 2 L (-1), 2 launchers
Fittings: 26 PWG (+1), 225 CPU (+15)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350(+76) / 300(+26) / 300(+42)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 235 (-15)/ 130s (-57.5s)/ 1.8077 (+0.57)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass): 410 (+57) / 3.22 / 1080000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 63.5km (+18.5) / 560 (+105) / 6
Cargo capacity: 250 (+100)

Mining frigate skill bonuses:
+5% to mining yield per level
5% to gas harvesting duration reduction per level
Role bonuses:
+100% to mining yield
+100% to gas harvesting yield
+ 2 warp core stabilizer bonus
Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 1 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 45 PWG, 240 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 225 / 175 / 200
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 250 / 125s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 335 / 3.6 / 1200000 / 4.04s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 10
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 15km / 750 / 5
Sensor strength: 4 Magnetometric
Cargo capacity: 50
Ore hold: 5000

Quite a number of changes in there. A quick overview of what I think:

1. The module changes are much needed, but I doubt that the target breaker and the reactive hardener are going to be suddenly useful. The hardener may have its place in PVE, but we will see. The salvage drones are going to be nice, especially with the drone bay on the noctis now. The only downside is that they do not bring the salvage back to you, so you will still have to tractor it in and loot it. The microjump drive seems strange...I don't know how it is really going to work. The spool up time is going to be an issue, and the fact that it basically takes over the slot where an mwd would be. Still, I feel like this module could bring some amazing new changes to BS combat and there could be some cool strategies developed in the coming months.

2. The Cane grid nerf hurts, you can look at the comment to see others posting fits about the cane. It really is much tighter now and rather irritating I think.

3. The destroyer changes are really nice. The Cormorant and the Coercer desperately needed the slot layout changes, and the little tweaks just bring them all up in their power. I feel the new destroyers with their novelty and strength will mean that these changes go largely noticed.

4. The changes to the attack frigates I think is very needed. They were under powered so it is nice to see them getting a boost. However, with the other changes, I feel like they will be overshadowed by the power of the destroyers and cruisers.

5. The exploration frigates are going to be really nice. The cycle time bonuses will be big for exploration. This is going to be a much used frigate everywhere methinks.

6. The EWAR frigates are all around more powerful. Like their big brothers, the cruisers, they have been buffed enough to overcome the EWAR nerfs and to utilized the other EWAR buffs well. These also will probably be overshadowed by the changes to the cruisers.

7. The mining frigate. This is a much needed addition. New players can get into mining easier, but more importantly, the gas mining bonus is huge. This little ship is going to be the praise of drug dealers everywhere in New Eden

9. Conclusions

Boy am I excited for these changes. CCP has really given us an early Christmas with all of this. The big thing I see, which I really like, is that there is now a progression from starting, to the attack/combat cruisers and T1 logi, into their HAC and T2 logi brothers, allowing people to try out what they like without having to spend a long time training something first. The destroyers and re-balancing on all the other ships breathe new life into what were old and useless hulls.

The big thing I see, with the new cruisers, is that BCs are going to definitely keep a strong place. As well, when the BC changes come, they could really spell the destruction of these cruisers. Battlecruisers are going to be able to tear apart these new cruisers in larger engagments, so we will have to see what happens with the future patches.

As well, with all of these fits being set with all 5s, I did notice that they seem loose enough that new players with lower skills are still going to be able to use the new ships quite well. 3/2 Ospreys and Augorors are going to be very useful. Running meta 4 weapons will free up pg and cpu that new players might not have with lower fitting skills, etc. In general these changes seem to allow older players to have fun with ships that were previously not powerful and allow new players to be more effective quicker, even with less skills.

I would like to stress that these are my opinions on what I have seen/read. When the changes actually go to the live server, we will get a better idea of what is good and what is bad, meaning that everything I have said could and may be proved totally ridiculous and wrong. We really will just have to wait and see what happens come the Decemeber Patch

All credit for the EFT changes goes to Namamai, found here.

Addendum: Apologies for spelling and grammar mistakes, large parts of this were written late at night when I was quite tired, so try to discern my meaning when the words don't make sense.

Member

### Re: Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

Please, for the love of all that is good and holy, stop loading Conflag, Hail, Void, and Fury into every single fit.

2. The Cane grid nerf hurts, you can look at the comment to see others posting fits about the cane. It really is much tighter now and rather irritating I think.

Hence the other thread where I described how retarded CCP was for doing that, and how bittervets don't care about the Hurricane change.

SPOILER WARNING!
The big thing I see, which I really like, is that there is now a progression from starting, to the attack/combat cruisers and T1 logi, into their HAC and T2 logi brothers, allowing people to try out what they like without having to spend a long time training something first.

Jury is still out on Logi, I think too many hiseccers are theorycrafting up some trash based purely on rep output, and ignoring their resillience.

The new cruisers are going to be tougher, with better damage, but they're not HACs. They just don't have the bonuses to damage projection that makes HACs...HACs. Another reason why you shouldn't theorycraft with Hail/Conflag/Void--it's very rarely about your paper DPS, and more about how much damage you can project.

Member

### Re: Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

Daniel Wittaker wrote:Please, for the love of all that is good and holy, stop loading Conflag, Hail, Void, and Fury into every single fit.

2. The Cane grid nerf hurts, you can look at the comment to see others posting fits about the cane. It really is much tighter now and rather irritating I think.

Hence the other thread where I described how retarded CCP was for doing that, and how bittervets don't care about the Hurricane change.

SPOILER WARNING!
The big thing I see, which I really like, is that there is now a progression from starting, to the attack/combat cruisers and T1 logi, into their HAC and T2 logi brothers, allowing people to try out what they like without having to spend a long time training something first.

Jury is still out on Logi, I think too many hiseccers are theorycrafting up some trash based purely on rep output, and ignoring their resillience.

The new cruisers are going to be tougher, with better damage, but they're not HACs. They just don't have the bonuses to damage projection that makes HACs...HACs. Another reason why you shouldn't theorycraft with Hail/Conflag/Void--it's very rarely about your paper DPS, and more about how much damage you can project.

The logi fits I made I put as much tank and eccm as I could, the simple truth is that they aren't T2 logi, but at least now people can try out logi without having to train cruisers 5/logi 5. I am not suggesting that HBC start trying to run Ospreys in shield fleets.

That is why it is a progression. If you want to fly a HAC, you fly a HAC. These new cruisers allow you to try out something similar too, but weaker than HACs without having to train HACs all the way. As well, these are not meant to be optimized fits for the ships, hence why they have T2 ammo. This is meant to just give a first look at what the ships can be like.

Member

### Re: Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

Good stuff -- have to flag this thread for careful reading. I've been playing with the new Gallente destroyer on Buckingham, and I think it's going to become my new favorite dessie.
EVE University Diplomat | Titles Staff

Member

### Re: Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

Balthusdire Dominus wrote:The logi fits I made I put as much tank and eccm as I could, the simple truth is that they aren't T2 logi, but at least now people can try out logi without having to train cruisers 5/logi 5. I am not suggesting that HBC start trying to run Ospreys in shield fleets.

That is why it is a progression. If you want to fly a HAC, you fly a HAC. These new cruisers allow you to try out something similar too, but weaker than HACs without having to train HACs all the way. As well, these are not meant to be optimized fits for the ships, hence why they have T2 ammo. This is meant to just give a first look at what the ships can be like.

Yeah, the new T1 Logi is a lot closer in that it gives you respectable range and reps while not fitting an awful tank, which isn't bad. My point is that I think they're a lot frailer than initial theorycrafts would suggest. They'll still be really good for tossing into Empire fleets, and probably serving as 'welp Logi' pretty much anywhere outside of W-space. That said, the skills you're using to make these fits are far and above what a new player wishing to sample logistics would have. IV/IV cap skills and III or IV repper skills is a lot closer to that market. They'd probably still work, you'd just need to swap in some cap mods here and there.

The new cruisers just flat-out don't replicate HACs. The tanks are better than they have been in the past, but between a lack of T2 resist profiles and bonuses to range, they're just not quite there. That said, they're really, really good ships, and I can see them displacing battlecruisers for a lot of peeveepee activities. Closer to a HAC? Sure. Totally a HAC teaching experience? Not really, but flying cool stuff isn't hard. Learn to Keep At Range 2km on a goddamn anchor and follow primaries, and you're there. FCs---stop being lazy scrubs and learn to friggin' broadcast your primaries. Make a damn hotkey. This is how everyone else does it, and we do it for a reason--it works.

The problem with the way you're using T2 ammo is that in a lot of situations, it's worse than loading preferred faction ammo. Hail, for example, seems like an okay damage boost. But when you factor in the loss of tracking and falloff, you effectively do less damage at every range unless your target is enormous and you're close to stationary. I've used it once in my career--it's just that bad. By contrast, I've won fights I should have lost because opponents blindly loaded Hail instead of something useful, like RF EMP.

Conflag isn't quite as bad, but still suffers from cap usage and tracking issues. Scorch is a lot more common, since it allows you to leverage lasers' excellent damage projection and tracking (for its given optimal; it does have a tracking penalty). Void is the only T2 +damage ammunition since blasters already have great tracking natively, and Void bonuses optimal range.

Member

### Re: Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

Balthusdire Dominus wrote:This is just a theoretical look at the new changes. The perfect skills allows us to see comparisons of the power. As well, the T1 logi boats could be quite useful for people flying with full T2 logi skills when they want to run with cheap throwaway ships that are almost the same power. The Osprey and Aurgoror running 3/2 are probably going to be most used anyway and what I recommend for lower skilled players because then they can easily be cap stable.

Only that the sine qua non of these changes is the impact on lower-skiller players; hence, the actual nitty gritty of the low-SP fits are far more interesting than yet another "All Vs" fit with subsequent hand-waving.
Ex Senior Personnel Officer | KB | Twitter | Internet spaceships are very serious business!

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### Re: Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

Alicia Fermi wrote:Only that the sine qua non of these changes is the impact on lower-skiller players; hence, the actual nitty gritty of the low-SP fits are far more interesting than yet another "All Vs" fit with subsequent hand-waving.

I tested the 3/2 Augoror on Simon's skills, which are mostly 4s. It should be cap stable, provided it partners with another 3/2 Augoror. And while I'm extremely not crazy about the idea, if you swap out one of the ECCM arrays for a medium cap booster, you can run three remote armor reppers without support for as long as you have size 800 charges. i.e. 15 cycles or 20 with Navy.

Also:
Balthusdire Dominus wrote:6. The EWAR frigates are all around more powerful. Like their big brothers, the cruisers, they have been buffed enough to overcome the EWAR nerfs and to utilized the other EWAR buffs well. These also will probably be overshadowed by the changes to the cruisers.

For pure TD, I'm liking the Crucifier better than the Arbitrator. Even with only 3s and 4s in the appropriate skills, you can put together a sub 5 million fit that can apply three TD2s out to a range of 120 km - beyond the operational range of an Arbi pilot who wants to use his drones. Granted, the Crucifier has zero tank, but it's very cheap and tends to be overlooked.

Member

### Re: Retribution Ship Changes Theorycrafting

Alicia Fermi wrote:
Balthusdire Dominus wrote:This is just a theoretical look at the new changes. The perfect skills allows us to see comparisons of the power. As well, the T1 logi boats could be quite useful for people flying with full T2 logi skills when they want to run with cheap throwaway ships that are almost the same power. The Osprey and Aurgoror running 3/2 are probably going to be most used anyway and what I recommend for lower skilled players because then they can easily be cap stable.

Only that the sine qua non of these changes is the impact on lower-skiller players; hence, the actual nitty gritty of the low-SP fits are far more interesting than yet another "All Vs" fit with subsequent hand-waving.

Here, two fits made with all 3s.

Osprey:

Scythe:

Less tank, more difficult cap stability, and much easier to jam, but it definitely works for lower skilled players. The Osprey especially, it is almost impossible to make it unstable for cap. Here is an osprey fit that has only the base skills needed to fly it, with no additional support skills (except base pilot skills):

That fit is with shield emission lvl 1, energy emission lvl 1, cruiser 1, etc. I won't try this with the Scythe because I am sure that will be almost impossible to make cap stable with only lvl 1s, but still, powerful and easy to fit ships.
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